League Two Rovers (1) v Sutton (0)

[Ian]

For all the talk of sustainability, if Palios had not been putting in £500,000 - £1,000,000 in recent years we would have run out of cash some time ago. From his comments in the directors' report and the cash flow disclosures, it seems he put in circa £800,000 last year.

That's quite worrying, but they can put measures in place such as reducing the size of the playing squad as a quick example. How much are they paying in players wages?

 

[bigmart]

That's quite worrying, but they can put measures in place such as reducing the size of the playing squad as a quick example. How much are they paying in players wages?

The players wages will be included in the staffing coats, not sure if there's a breakdown of players wages or not.
The cost of the upkeep and running of the ground will be high, with utility bills high.
Next season is the new TV deal, so we will receive 25% more from Sky which based on receiving £1m would be worth an extra 250k.

 

[ADD]

It’s been established from reviewing past financials that the bulk, if not the entirety, of those other creditors is due to the Paliosi. We also established why that wasn’t included within the related party disclosures. The figure @ 6/23 in the 2023 financials, incidentally, was £4.7m rather than c£6m.
(EDIT - here’s the link to that discussion, starting here: https://whitereview.co.uk/community/threads/trfc-financials-year-ended-june-‘23.6070/#post-96347).

Going back to Johnson, it’s on public record that he converted a big chunk of his loan to equity before he sold his shares to the Paliosi, and later wrote off the remaining balance of his loan that hadn't been repaid in the meantime. There’s been no indication that Johnson later lent the club anything, certainly nothing substantial.

So it’s highly unlikely that there’s any legacy of PJ‘s that would or even could complicate a potential sale of the club now.

I recall the thread but I wasn't sure that that was definitely the case if I am honest since my understanding is that loans from directors to need to be disclosed if they are at non-market rates (FRS 102.1.AC35) but any MP loans can't be at market rates as interest payable was only £47k which is only for the Bank loans. So why no disclosure? Either way if the £4.7m is from MP and he has paid over £4.8m for his shares (some were with a share premium most weren't) then that means he has put in £9.5m!
I may be completely wrong of course! but my point was the Other creditors started going up after Mr Johnson ceased to be a director and so from that point there was no requirement for loans from him to be disclosed?

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

The player wages are not separately disclosed in the accounts, but Palios said we have a mid table budget this season, and had a top third budget last year.

I don't think a lack of spending has been the problem in recent years, rather the effectiveness of that spending. Clubs like Barrow, Crewe, Walsall etc will not have significantly higher wage budgets than us. We have a squad of over thirty players, less than half of whom are actually good enough to feature regularly in the first team. Our recruitment and our use of the playing budget has to improve in future years if we are to challenge in the top half of the table. Poor managerial appointments have also been an issue.

Palios has put millions into the club in recent years to keep things in motion, but that is double edged. His mantra ever since he acquired the club has been self-sustainability, but we are no closer now to being sustainable than we were ten years ago when he first arrived. The strategy of concerts, China, development policy etc has ultimately not delivered what it was intended to deliver, and the goal of sustainability was probably never realistic without greater expertise than we have access to.

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

I recall the thread but I wasn't sure that that was definitely the case if I am honest since my understanding is that loans from directors to need to be disclosed if they are at non-market rates (FRS 102.1.AC35) but any MP loans can't be at market rates as interest payable was only £47k which is only for the Bank loans. So why no disclosure? Either way if the £4.7m is from MP and he has paid over £4.8m for his shares (some were with a share premium most weren't) then that means he has put in £9.5m!
I may be completely wrong of course! but my point was the Other creditors started going up after Mr Johnson ceased to be a director and so from that point there was no requirement for loans from him to be disclosed?

There are some related party exemptions in the filing copy of the accounts, which is probably why the debt to Palios is not disclosed.

 

[ADD]

There are some related party exemptions in the filing copy of the accounts, which is probably why the debt to Palios is not disclosed.

Interesting. Thanks

 

[O4anotherplayoff]

Either way if the £4.7m is from MP and he has paid over £4.8m for his shares (some were with a share premium most weren't) then that means he has put in £9.5m!

We don’t know how much the PaliosI paid Johnson for his shares, that was a transaction between those individuals rather than a company transaction.

We do know Johnson capitalised £3.75m of his loan (in other words the club issued new shares to him at par (7.5m @ 50p) to reduce his loan by that amount) prior to him selling his shares to the Paliosi, but that’s a different matter.

 

[O4anotherplayoff]

Just to flesh this out more fully (and all of this is on the public record):

The Paliosi currently own 9,906,252 shares, acquired as follows:

5,750,000 shares acquired from PJ initially, price unknown.
1,000,000 shares issued by the club 24/9/14 @ par (50p)
2,047,556 shares acquired from PJ 14/5/15, price unknown (this deal took PJ’s holding down to a single share)
1,000,000 shares issued by the club 1/5/18 @ par (50p)
108,696 shares issued by the club 6/9/23 @ 92p

So, as 2m shares acquired @50p is £1m, and 108k shares acquired at 92p is £100k, it means the Paliosi‘s investment through shares is £1.1m + whatever they paId to PJ for his shares.

Either way if the £4.7m is from MP and he has paid over £4.8m for his shares (some were with a share premium most weren't)

The only premium the Paliosi paid on shares was in respect of the relatively small share issue on 6/9/23, shown above. The share premium in the latest financial statements (@ 30/6/23), however, actually relates entirely to the shares acquired by the Indonesians.

Their current holding is 3,093,010 shares, acquired as follows:

1,764,706 for £2.5m on 30/8/19
893,522 for £1m on 30/4/20
434,782 for £400k on 19/11/21

So, they‘ve invested £3.9m through their current shareholding of 3,093,010 50p shares, which results in a premium of £2,353,495, which is the figure in the financial statements.

 

[Higgy 2]

Appreciate the Sutton game is long gone, but meant to mention that I'm pleased Walker will be with us and that he and Hendry don't get as overrun as I thought they would. Albeit Nigel getting the forwards and wide men to put in real shifts must be a great help.
There were some big units in that Sutton side and I think we coped with their physicality pretty well. Granted Hendry is a tad lightweight, but he does get his body in there tbf.
I agree that Merrie must be ahead of McAlear in the pecking order. He picked out a couple of nice passes during his time on the pitch. Similar to Walker in that I think they see a pass earlier than Hendry - who is neat and tidy and a model pro.
I thought Duke McKenna was a little clever player when he came on. Only young, Scouser who has also played for Guyana- with Neil Danns. Might be worth a watch.