League Two Carlisle v Rovers

[Rockford's Love Child]

The club to me has the feeling of the last couple of seasons under PJ lack of investment will eventually lead to one thing

Yes, it is a major concern. If the new investment does not materialise, or is not substantial, I fear for us next season.

I think in addition to money we also need vastly improved decision making, as so many of the recent decisions taken by the club have been poor.

The club feels rudderless at the moment.

 

[ONIGP]

Are they the horsemeat variety?

Neigh

 

[ONIGP]

It was interesting listening to the Radio Cumbria commentary. The general feeling was that we had a decent group of players for this level and that we played good, possession-based football.

Clearly things aren't right at the moment but I don't think binning the whole team and the Project is the answer. With a suitable new manager who buys into MP's broad "vision" the focus should be on building upon what we have and, if necessary, tweaking the strategy to ensure that we are more competitive now.

If people genuinely believe that our only deficiency is the lack of goalscorers then it is, theoretically, an easy fix. I think it is more than that but the situation is less clear than it would be if we had been able to select our first choice starting XI this year. Of course, there will also be some "goings" in the Summer that will need replacing.

For me the worst scenario is leaving it too long to bring a new manager in. Ideally you want to give somebody enough time to get the existing players, who he wants to keep, on board as well as time to consider recruitment, sign players and coach them ready for day 1 23/24.

 

[Boz]

There is a trend on here to take very polarised black and white views, but for me shades of grey with things going wrong across the board and nobody whose been involved this season totally blameless for the doldrums we find ourselves in now.

Dawes referenced the Stevenage game in his post match remarks, it wasn’t entirely clear, but an implication that he’d not wanted them playing out from the back?

While our main problem throughout the season has been the lack of quality forwards, that should not be used as a reason to airbrush out weaknesses elsewhere on the park. Cut out the two defensive errors at Gillingham and we come away with a point for example. Part of the problem at Carlisle was having an inexperienced keeper and putting him into positions he couldn’t deal with, but it wasn’t the full picture. JDC appears to be mentally on the beach already, Turnbull looked disinterested, Bristow seems to lose concentration and remains a work in progress. Further up the park, Hawkes and Hemmings were near anonymous. Saunders picked up a knock in a full-blooded 50/50 and wasn’t as involved because of that. Of the starters only Merrie and Hendry appeared close to their normal game and with Chris picking up what looked like a bad knee injury, may be missing a while.

ADD suggests playing all the kids. Most of them are out on loan, Hockenhull can’t even get on the bench at Warrington, for example. We have a responsibility to those involved at either end of the table to pick our best side in games against teams with something to play for. Otherwise yes, give those available an opportunity. Agree Turner-Cooke’s lack of game time is a mystery, which may impact on future loans from Newcastle and after a good game at Stevenage too.

Sadly we didn’t have the resources to go back to a Micky style experienced core of players and he wasn’t ideal for the development model. If it had looked like the new investment was going to be substantial, such that we could revert to MM style of squad building it would have made sense to stick with him? Inference is that we’re going to be reliant on the development model so need to bring in a manager and staff able to work with this approach.

Like most posters on here, I’m apprehensive…

 

[O4anotherplayoff]

The development model absolutely relies on generating a steady steam of decent transfer fees. This summer will be an acid test in that respect. Palios certainly thinks we’ve got saleable players so we’ll see.

Those fees then need to be reinvested into the squad. It’s this part of the equation that concerns me more than the fee-generating part because recruitment, imho, has never been quite right under MP.

 

[Ian]

Inference is that we’re going to be reliant on the development model so need to bring in a manager and staff able to work with this approach.

If we are to stick with MP development model be prepared for at least another season of mediocrity.

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

While our main problem throughout the season has been the lack of quality forwards, that should not be used as a reason to airbrush out weaknesses elsewhere on the park. Cut out the two defensive errors at Gillingham and we come away with a point for example. Part of the problem at Carlisle was having an inexperienced keeper and putting him into positions he couldn’t deal with, but it wasn’t the full picture. JDC appears to be mentally on the beach already, Turnbull looked disinterested, Bristow seems to lose concentration and remains a work in progress.

Defensively we have been strong for the vast majority of the season, at least under Mellon. We have a very good back four for the level. There have been individual errors in certain games, as there inevitably will be, but our overall defensive record is good. My concern at the moment is that rather than playing to that defensive strength, we are adopting a style which leaves us far more exposed at the back, but has not actually addressed the goalscoring problems.

The major issue at the moment is the absence of a decent keeper below the age of forty and the poor quality of the strikers. However, the latter problem speaks to the wider financial difficulties at the club. We have struggled for several years to bring in decent forwards and that suggests a general inability to compete for the better players at this level.

If Dawes is trying to claim that he did not instruct the defence to play out yesterday, it is absurd. That has clearly been his instruction in all three of the games.

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

The development model absolutely relies on generating a steady steam of decent transfer fees. This summer will be an acid test in that respect. Palios certainly thinks we’ve got saleable players so we’ll see.

Those fees then need to be reinvested into the squad. It’s this part of the equation that concerns me more than the fee-generating part because recruitment, imho, has never been quite right under MP.

I think the issue is also whether the sums raised are going to be game changing, even if we are able to make regular sales. The odd £50,000 - £100,000 is not going to make a substantial difference to recruitment in the context of losses of £500,000 per year.

I still believe new investment, and probably new ideas, are vital to the future health of the club.

 

[ONIGP]

I think the issue is also whether the sums raised are going to be game changing, even if we are able to make regular sales. The odd £50,000 - £100,000 is not going to make a substantial difference to recruitment in the context of losses of £500,000 per year.

While this is undoubtedly true, it has got to be a better solution financially than playing a mixture of end of career pros and journeymen who are signed on frees and move on the same way. The big "miss" in any model is the ability to bring through our own young players. We know the reasons for this and it affects at least half of the EFL. Unless clubs receive significant investment the only realistic alternative to progress on the pitch and as a club is to pick up the offcasts from the EPL/Championship factory fishing policies and develop them. Not an easy task since by the age of 21 they have played a different type of football in a different environment. It is a demoralising and tragic situation that our wonderful flagship EPL has created.

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

While this is undoubtedly true, it has got to be a better solution financially than playing a mixture of end of career pros and journeymen who are signed on frees and move on the same way. The big "miss" in any model is the ability to bring through our own young players. We know the reasons for this and it affects at least half of the EFL. Unless clubs receive significant investment the only realistic alternative to progress on the pitch and as a club is to pick up the offcasts from the EPL/Championship factory fishing policies and develop them. Not an easy task since by the age of 21 they have played a different type of football in a different environment. It is a demoralising and tragic situation that our wonderful flagship EPL has created.

If investment is not forthcoming, I agree that we probably have no other choice. However, I am still not convinced it will be sustainable, or at least whether it will result in a significant improvement in the quality of the squad.

There was an alternative approach, whereby we backed Mellon with a more experienced squad this season, on the assumption that attendances would then be higher and promotion might result, but that ship has obviously sailed.

 

[bigmart]

The development model absolutely relies on generating a steady steam of decent transfer fees. This summer will be an acid test in that respect. Palios certainly thinks we’ve got saleable players so we’ll see.

Those fees then need to be reinvested into the squad. It’s this part of the equation that concerns me more than the fee-generating part because recruitment, imho, has never been quite right under MP.

It's not just the fees we get in its also getting a replacement in of similar ability

 

[bigmart]

The accounts for last season have been filed with companies House and will be online within 10 days.

 

[Boz]

Defensively we have been strong for the vast majority of the season, at least under Mellon. We have a very good back four for the level. There have been individual errors in certain games, as there inevitably will be, but our overall defensive record is good. My concern at the moment is that rather than playing to that defensive strength, we are adopting a style which leaves us far more exposed at the back, but has not actually addressed the goalscoring problems.

The major issue at the moment is the absence of a decent keeper below the age of forty and the poor quality of the strikers. However, the latter problem speaks to the wider financial difficulties at the club. We have struggled for several years to bring in decent forwards and that suggests a general inability to compete for the better players at this level.

If Dawes is trying to claim that he did not instruct the defence to play out yesterday, it is absurd. That has clearly been his instruction in all three of the games.

While agreeing that we have a reasonable back four, they don't seem to have been as reliable as last season's and post the January window, we've been similar to last year's defensive issue, having virtually no options for cover to replace jaded or complacent players. As well as the Gillingham game already referenced, I can think of at least half a dozen games where points have been dropped due to defensive errors and that's without delving into the file marked keeper howlers. Even with a quality strike-force, which we all accept is lacking, there's some work required to nullify those mistakes.

Re the post-match interview, you've heard the same one as me. It surprised me, but definitely came across as that was not how Dawes had asked them to play.

 

[Boz]

If investment is not forthcoming, I agree that we probably have no other choice. However, I am still not convinced it will be sustainable, or at least whether it will result in a significant improvement in the quality of the squad.

There was an alternative approach, whereby we backed Mellon with a more experienced squad this season, on the assumption that attendances would then be higher and promotion might result, but that ship has obviously sailed.

Micky was unable to deliver with the more experienced squad last season though, so had we gone down that route again, how would he have changed? There was fan dissatisfaction at the time, which led to some of the remarks from the chair about a more adventurous style of play. With what's been seen since, people may have changed their minds now.

 

[Boz]

It's not just the fees we get in its also getting a replacement in of similar ability

Isn't a development model one where the incoming player is only going to have the potential to be coached into a player of similar ability? There's always going to be the growing the player phase and even with a development model think you need a nucleus of experience whom the younger players can do their developing around.

 

[ONIGP]

Isn't a development model one where the incoming player is only going to have the potential to be coached into a player of similar ability? There's always going to be the growing the player phase and even with a development model think you need a nucleus of experience whom the younger players can do their developing around.

More than that, you arguably need to switch budget between playing and coaching staff. Effective coaching is essential for the development model which means the right coaches with an approach which is beyond just tactics and keeping seasoned pros fit.
That needs to be a medium term investment rather than a "cheap" option.

 

[Keith Hill (Bolton)]

For me, at the moment, the players don't seem to be completely convinced to what they are being told. The body language is not positive at all, when something breaks down, it's similar to a training session, players telling players what they should have done, looking at each other, bemused sometimes! The lack of forward play, brings too much pressure on back four, and when they start from the back, it is a bit of a mess. The spine is not solid enough.
I did mention that we had to get a good start, but it was a repeat performance. Just a bad performance (again!)

As for the next person in charge. It is already a daunting prospect and will take some serious good recruitment of players this summer to entice someone who no matter how good a coach, Will be up against it and be accepted by the fans.

Ian Dawes is right, that, that performance is not acceptable to the SWA. We demand more and expect more. Just not good enough at all from the club itself!

The only good thing was the support plus a pint I had!

 

[Keith Hill (Bolton)]

At bookers wholesale now and aguy from Tranmere rovers is getting your burgers and yes they have picked the cheapest nasty ones they could get why am I not surprised

How are You surprised?
The levels of frozen food served now, for the price they charge is a disgrace!
No standards mate!

 

[Boz]

More than that, you arguably need to switch budget between playing and coaching staff. Effective coaching is essential for the development model which means the right coaches with an approach which is beyond just tactics and keeping seasoned pros fit.
That needs to be a medium term investment rather than a "cheap" option.

Sounds like the new investors will need serious money to make things work then. A few of the Palioi’s off-field projects were longer term when they arrived, but doubt they’ve got the staying power to see this through now. Looking like the rock/hard place option.

 

[Am on mobile]

The point I am making is that it does not take much to get it right