League Two Crawley v Rovers

[Sparky]

So is it mainly down to the players’ attitude? The recent games against poor opponents where Rovers failed to get a result must include Newport, where the poor performance effectively cost Micky his job.

Clarke may have a point about shrinking violets, but he was part of the problem too, being too cowardly to acknowledge his own mistakes.

A lot of it must be attitude especially at this stage of the season. The lack of a permanent manager can’t be helping. Plus the fact we have nothing to play for, and some players know they won’t be with us next season. Even turnbull who is under contract appears a shadow of himself earlier in the season. I’m guessing confidence is also very low that is affecting a number of them. So it’s a number of factors at the moment contributing to what we’re seeing.

Whilst Dawes will have spoken to the players about pride and playing for the fans, in reality due to the above I just don’t think we are good enough at the moment to pick up regular wins and good performances

 

[bigmart]

It all stems from the top, we changed the recruitment to the development model and installed a director of football and were supposed to play a more attacking and risk taking type of football.

The DOF left and has not bern replaced, Micky was left with an unbalanced squad and players who we would not have signed if he had more of a say over signings and a style he was not comfortable with.
We now are in a situation that 4 weeks on we have no manager, season ticket sales are going to be lower and there is no sign of any additional investment.

MP needs to get a new manager sorted quickly now with their own coaching staff and let them build a squad with their own style of play and hopefully the fans can get behind them as the way things are going we will be looking over our shoulders next season

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

So is it mainly down to the players’ attitude?

No.

It is an issue now because we don't have a manager and there is nothing to play for, so the whole club is listless.

However, the longer term issues are: a limited budget compared to a number of clubs at this level; poor recruitment; a 'development style' which was at odds with the approach of the previous manager, and is very difficult to implement at this level with limited resources, even with a manager who is suited to the strategy.

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

The recent games against poor opponents where Rovers failed to get a result must include Newport, where the poor performance effectively cost Micky his job.

You keep referencing this individual game, which came in a period when we were using Burton and Mumbongo up front due to the injury to Hemmings. Individual results don't tell us a great deal, longer term trends do.

If you examine Mellon's longer term points per game return it is clearly superior to Dawes's, despite the fact Dawes has had a relatively 'easy' run of fixtures, mostly against crap or de-motivated teams.

 

[Ian]

It is an issue now because we don't have a manager and there is nothing to play for, so the whole club is listless.

Maybe attitude is the wrong word, possibly mental toughness. I dont know, but the performances and inconsistency were going south well before Micky left.

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

Maybe attitude is the wrong word, possibly mental toughness. I dont know, but the performances and inconsistency were going south well before Micky left.

I don't really agree. We were hit by injuries just prior to Mellon's departure, hence the poor performances against Gillingham and Newport, but there was no huge drop off in form. We beat Stevenage and Orient in the weeks just prior to his sacking.

Obviously, leadership and character are important characteristics which should be considered when you recruit, and I would agree that we don't have enough of either in this squad. Mellon would probably have said the same himself, but his hands were tied to a large extent.

 

[ONIGP]

I appreciate that we can't get promoted or relegated. However, I have trouble understanding why this would significantly affect the attitude of players on the pitch. It is their job at the end of the day and they should be playing for the shirt, for the manager, for the fans who are paying to watch them, for new contracts (or to impress suitors), but primarily for each other. I was playing rugby before the league structures came in. It didn't make any difference when the leagues were introduced with promotion and relegation; you gave your all for the team and came off the pitch with your head held high. We do seem to miss players who can influence a team performance and rally the crowd purely through sheer effort and aggression - leaders.

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

I appreciate that we can't get promoted or relegated. However, I have trouble understanding why this would significantly affect the attitude of players on the pitch. It is their job at the end of the day and they should be playing for the shirt, for the manager, for the fans who are paying to watch them, for new contracts (or to impress suitors), but primarily for each other. I was playing rugby before the league structures came in. It didn't make any difference when the leagues were introduced with promotion and relegation; you gave your all for the team and came off the pitch with your head held high. We do seem to miss players who can influence a team performance and rally the crowd purely through sheer effort and aggression - leaders.

It is not unique to us though. The form of most of the mid table teams has tailed off in the last few weeks. It simply happens at this time of the season and ultimately it makes little difference whether we finish twelfth or thirteenth.

However, the longer term issues highlighted by Mart above are specific to us, and are the underlying factors that need to be addressed.

 

[Sparky]

I appreciate that we can't get promoted or relegated. However, I have trouble understanding why this would significantly affect the attitude of players on the pitch. It is their job at the end of the day and they should be playing for the shirt, for the manager, for the fans who are paying to watch them, for new contracts (or to impress suitors), but primarily for each other. I was playing rugby before the league structures came in. It didn't make any difference when the leagues were introduced with promotion and relegation; you gave your all for the team and came off the pitch with your head held high. We do seem to miss players who can influence a team performance and rally the crowd purely through sheer effort and aggression - leaders.

They are only human beings. As I’ve said it’s very possible the likes of JDC and Davies have offers on the table from other clubs. They’ll have bills and families to think of so may not want to risk a serious injury. Let’s remember they are not Tranmere fans and have a short career to think of.

Other issues for me will be around confidence. Micky got sacked because of results. Dawes hasn’t really improved things. Our strikers haven’t been scoring. Our results overall since October have been poor so I’m sure the spirit in the camp at the moment is low.

Look at someone like Rhys hughes. Was doing fairly well at promotion seeking Chester. We call him back and he’s now in and out of the team. Dawes has twice hauled him off at half time. Bet he wishes he was still at the Deva

So there must be massive confidence issues. Coupled with some players knowing they won’t be here next season. Even hewlet will surely know he won’t be our number one next season. Yes when they go over the white line they probably mean well but subconsciously I think some aren’t up to it at the moment. Partly for the reasons stated.

Of course this won’t have been helped by the lack of leaders to set an example and that is a massive issue which you have to look at the club for who to blame. It won’t have been mickys choice

 

[Ian]

This is a crucial time for Rovers and the next few months. I really hope they make the right decisions because if we fall any lower, we won't be far away from the drop and I don't know if I can stomach that crap again.

 

[bigmart]

This is a crucial time for Rovers and the next few months. I really hope they make the right decisions because if we fall any lower, we won't be far away from the drop and I don't know if I can stomach that crap again.

Agree totally on this, get it right and have a proper vision we can get behind or if get it wrong then the inevitable will happen

 

[Boz]

You keep referencing this individual game, which came in a period when we were using Burton and Mumbongo up front due to the injury to Hemmings. Individual results don't tell us a great deal, longer term trends do.

If you examine Mellon's longer term points per game return it is clearly superior to Dawes's, despite the fact Dawes has had a relatively 'easy' run of fixtures, mostly against crap or de-motivated teams.

I've mentioned previously the tendency for polarised views across the Rovers fans, which feels unhelpful. I'm not claiming that Dawes is a better manager than Micky, but Micky's last 3 games in charge were arguably also against 'crap or demotivated teams' and we only managed one point, courtesy of a slightly generous penalty at home to Pools. Due to the injury crisis, both managers have had very little to work with, perhaps that makes some players complacent because they can't be dropped as there literally is no one else. While we only had one of our first choice strikers, Saunders, available v Newport in Micky's final game, Dawes has recently been able to pick the first choice strike-force, but has had to replace the injured Murphy with Hewelt in goal, a keeper it has been suggested is not of FL standard. Swings and roundabouts...

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

We had a couple of poor results immediately prior to Mellon's sacking which were heavily influenced by the injuries up front, but it is such a small sample of games I don't think we can draw wider conclusions. By contrast, I don't think any of the performances under Dawes have been convincing, aside perhaps from the Swindon game. If that is 'polarising' so be it. I rate Mellon as a manager and I don't want Dawes.

I would argue the availability of Hemmings is more important to our pattern of play and general approach than the presence of Murphy or Hewelt in goal.

 

[bring back the cowshed!]

Along with Doncaster, todays results mean we’re the first teams in L2 to be confirmed next season. Can neither get promoted or relegated.

By coincidence, Doncaster were the opponents in my first Rovers game back in 1958. Sixty-five years later, we will both be in the same division once again.

I wondered how many of the teams in the old Division Three from 1958/59 were still in the third tier, unlike us. The answer shocked me. It is only one, Plymouth Argyle. Ten are now in the fourth tier and five in the National League. All have survived or been reincarnated except Bury. So, we have been just about average in our performance over the last 64 years!

The reality is that English football is much more competitive nowadays as dozens of clubs have risen from non-league and many are here to stay.

 

[Boz]

We had a couple of poor results immediately prior to Mellon's sacking which were heavily influenced by the injuries up front, but it is such a small sample of games I don't think we can draw wider conclusions. By contrast, I don't think any of the performances under Dawes have been convincing, aside perhaps from the Swindon game. If that is 'polarising' so be it. I rate Mellon as a manager and I don't want Dawes.

I would argue the availability of Hemmings is more important to our pattern of play and general approach than the presence of Murphy or Hewelt in goal.

I get that you rate Mellon and not Dawes. However you appear to be judging them by different criteria. If Micky was unable to get his teams to beat ‘crap or demotivated’ opponents in his last 3 games, with effectively the same team as Dawes used, then why is one to blame and not the other? Mellon is a good manager but not infallible. To my mind, the approach of the players in terms of team spirit, mental toughness and attitude has been a significant factor in current difficulties which neither manager has overcome

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

I get that you rate Mellon and not Dawes. However you appear to be judging them by different criteria. If Micky was unable to get his teams to beat ‘crap or demotivated’ opponents in his last 3 games, with effectively the same team as Dawes used, then why is one to blame and not the other? Mellon is a good manager but not infallible. To my mind, the approach of the players in terms of team spirit, mental toughness and attitude has been a significant factor in current difficulties which neither manager has overcome

Because Dawes has had a stronger squad to select from, with Hemmings available again, and Mellon has beaten crap teams on countless occasions during his managerial career, including this season. He also beat Stevenage and Orient recently with effectively the same group of players, performances Dawes has not come close to matching. This is Dawes opportunity to prove himself - with the 'bounce' that every new manager benefits from - and he has blown it. Results and performances have got worse, not better.

A direct comparison between Mellon's last three games and Dawes' first three is superficial. It is more logical to compare Mellon's career with what we have seen from Dawes in total, and I think most sensible people will draw their own conclusion.

I strongly disagree that workrate and spirit was lacking under Mellon this season. On the contrary, the players worked hard - in contrast to shambles like Saturday's game - but quality was lacking. Organisation and workrate are the hallmarks of Mellon's teams, whatever other criticisms can be made of his style of play.

 

[Ian]

I think this demonstrates the difference between a good experienced manager and one that gets put into the role with very little managerial experience. Dawes obviously does not have the ability or experience to manage the team going forward but my concern is we get a manager of the same ilk who has hardly had any experience either.

I was and still am pro Micky and never thought he should be sacked, like I said at the time, careful what you wish for. Now sadly, all that experience has gone and we are taking backwards steps IMO looking at rookie managers.

 

[bigmart]

I think this demonstrates the difference between a good experienced manager and one that gets put into the role with very little managerial experience. Dawes obviously does not have the ability or experience to manage the team going forward but my concern is we get a manager of the same ilk who has hardly had any experience either.

I was and still am pro Micky and never thought he should be sacked, like I said at the time, careful what you wish for. Now sadly, all that experience has gone and we are taking backwards steps IMO looking at rookie managers.

I don't think it's particularly fair to judge Dawes over a handful of games, he has tried change the formation and way we play which isn't easy to do at this stage of the season. I don't think the results would have been much better if Micky was still in charge.
I'm not saying Dawes should be manager but as the development model is here to stay a fresh approach is needed and hopefully a new manager regardless of experience will come in and put a squad together in there style

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

I don't think it's particularly fair to judge Dawes over a handful of games, he has tried change the formation and way we play which isn't easy to do at this stage of the season. I don't think the results would have been much better if Micky was still in charge.
I'm not saying Dawes should be manager but as the development model is here to stay a fresh approach is needed and hopefully a new manager regardless of experience will come in and put a squad together in there style

Fortunately we were already safe when Dawes took charge, so our performance in the final few games was largely academic. I think the more interesting question is what our performance would have been like over forty six games had Dawes been in charge for the full season.

Would we have been well clear of relegation ? I am not convinced.

 

[Goody Two Shoes]

Mellon’s gone, time for us all to get over it; I never called for it, would have been okay if he’d have stayed, but fully accept why the decision was made; football’s a ruthless business. Surely targets were set and it’s my guess we fell below expectations. Hypothetical questions about Dawes serve no purpose as we’ll never know. Dawes is a temporary sticking plaster, so I think he needs cutting some slack. We’ve mis-fired for a while now and I guess blame has to be shared for that, from top to bottom. We appear no better or worse despite the change and despite arguments to the contrary; polishing or sprinkling glitter on it ain’t gonna change the reality that we’ve been massively mediocre and toothless for a good chunk of the season. If we’re genuinely ambitious, the cards don’t just need shuffling, we need a new dealer and a fresh pack; how many jokers should a pack have?
I vaguely remember somebody saying there’s no easy run as teams will be fighting for their lives, now they’re described as “crap” or “de-motivated”; I’m confused; can we have it both ways….seems so if it fits the narrative.