League Two Bradford v Rovers

[bigmart]

I don't think it's just the size of the budget it's using it better than we have in recent seasons. You only need to look at some of the teams in league 1 to see it can be done

 

[Ian]

You could have Pep as manager, the players still wouldnt be able to score goals, they aren't good enough. I think I've pretty much written the season off as it's the same every week now. What we need for stability is to keep Micky in charge but we need players that can stick the ball in the net. We might be looking at some luck for this to happen as we currently do not have the finances to cherry pick them. It will be the same next season too if no investment is found, whilst the likes of Wrexham will be flying past us!

 

[dollar'sbloke]

I think the season is dead now, performances including last night are overall ok, but results needed to upturn and they have not.
Whereas Bradford have a lot to play for, it appears they also have a minority hell bent on self-destruction. I honestly believe the funding of the team has held Micky back a lot, every August he barely has a side and by September there have been last minute signings of dubious quality. No one should be shocked that results are sub-par by then.
Fans almost expect a huge points handicap to be overcome by the January sales buys, they have to be fair but not this year.
If as seems likely Palios does not need to have very few employees in July, Micky may have a chance of hitting the season running.
Personally I will always believe the proof of my own eyes, a certain level of technical knowledge and a recognised bias towards certain playing styles. I don't care if the entire stand applaud the bombing on winger who spews crosses 20 metres too far, i will not join the fan club. We seem to be extending the modern world from bang average players of 20 being on super club's books to now clubs spending money on players of no true worth. Mad mad world.
Selling Doohan on one hand, Palios bank records, was genius but real players show a steep learning curve in their teens he was well past that and bizarrely his form dipping anyway entered a trough.
Bristow is an enigma, there so much to like and yet even more than Monthe a few fatal flaws. He was not defending at the second goal, he is supposed to pick a man or police any runners. His crosses tend to be atrocious except when he bullets low crosses across the front of goal. Such balls are appetising but not as good as picking a man in a yard and putting it in front him. On Saturday Morris got on the back of one, no one has much hope on the front post due to the strength of the cross, and frankly the defender should have cut it out.
Hawkes has become a good defender tracking back and works overlaps now Bristow shows a willing to kick on. However his stock, his right foot crosses are also atrocious and his hit and hope shots rarely even on target.
Those two are allegedly highly sort after, sell away.
Hendry impresses me but not sure Merrie was a problem, the net gain is minimal at best. O'Connor needs to be as deep as possible, his defensive skills are outstanding. His crosses that gain snow, atrocious and his shooting worse. Is Saunders more effective than Nevitt? Maybe just maybe.
The other two new wingers probably be hard to recall in a couple of years.
If you are kept out by Doohan, were Everton's 7th choice and played somewhere near the M6 junction last season- we should not be surprised.
Mumbungo has never had chance to get his game together, and where did he suddenly find after burners, surely he needs to start. Hemmings is becoming another failure not through his own fault but age, he was signed to get promotion on his last contract. His goals have mainly been textbook, he passes the ball into the net and doesn't try breaking the net. Doesn't happen much nor do major misses, there is an obvious cause. The fact is his last year is next year, his big effect was supposed to have taken place- promotion.
Summer recruitment was a disaster, I suspect lessons have been learnt and it is all under the carpet. The blowback continues.
On the upside Jamieson looking well low on confidence did ok and might have some mileage in him, just might.
For next season you have a back three with Bristow sold? Morris and central midfield with Hawkes sold. Hemmings and possibles.
Micky has a terrible habit of going all in on one player then suddenly freezing them out, I think he needs to stick with is convictions although some of them have looked certifiable at times. Fans demand change for changes sake when Micky has no options, trouble is now he has options he starts to fiddle.
Micky never completely screws up, nearly all do at this level, and he is far more likely to succeed with his squad than anyone else. Palios would be mad to twist here and am sure he won't.
I'll be busy as the nights drew back in now, so will return in the autumn in what may well be an end of an era, good or bad I don't know but critical I suspect!

 

[Sparky]

I wouldn't make any changes this season but when Micky's contract is up, it should be considered if there isn't a clear improvement in results. Still 15 games to go though, so I'm trying to retain some optimism!

Yes I agree. 4 wins in 20 is shocking really but Micky still has some credit in the bank. Plus as has been said there is only so much he can do with our budget, however our form isn’t good enough.

If it contributes in a similar vein for the next 15 games, then we’d probably end up finishing around 16th. If that’s the case then mark will have a big decision to make

 

[Sparky]

I don't think it's just the size of the budget it's using it better than we have in recent seasons. You only need to look at some of the teams in league 1 to see it can be done

Yes this is true also. Some teams do punch above their weights despite poor resources.

It boils down to whether despite our budget, mark thinking Micky should still be getting more out of what he has.

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

Yes this is true also. Some teams do punch above their weights despite poor resources.

It boils down to whether despite our budget, mark thinking Micky should still be getting more out of what he has.

On occasions teams punch above their weight, but they are the exceptions that prove the rule.

I disagree with some of the sentiments above regarding the limited significance of budgets. The budget is the most significant factor in success. Orient, Stevenage, Salford, Stockport, Mansfield and Northampton are in the top seven because they are among the highest spenders in the division. Carlisle are the possible exception, but even they have a bigger squad than us. I don't believe we have a budget at present that makes promotion a realistic possibility.

It may be true that we are performing at par rather than overachieving, but is it justifiable to sack a manager for 'failing to overachieve' ? Not in my view, particularly when you consider the likely calibre of the successors (cf. Adams, Brabin, Hill, Jackson etc).

I think Mellon is doing a decent job to keep us stable and competitive in mid table with limited resources. He is a very good manager, but as a club we are not in a position to achieve promotion at this time.

 

[drwhoman]

On occasions teams punch above their weight, but they are the exceptions that prove the rule.

I disagree with some of the sentiments above regarding the limited significance of budgets. The budget is the most significant factor in success. Orient, Stevenage, Salford, Stockport, Mansfield and Northampton are in the top seven because they are among the highest spenders in the division. Carlisle are the possible exception, but even they have a bigger squad than us. I don't believe we have a budget at present that makes promotion a realistic possibility.

It may be true that we are performing at par rather than overachieving, but is it justifiable to sack a manager for 'failing to overachieve' ? Not in my view, particularly when you consider the likely calibre of the successors (cf. Adams, Brabin, Hill, Jackson etc).

I think Mellon is doing a decent job to keep us stable and competitive in mid table with limited resources. He is a very good manager, but as a club we are not in a position to achieve promotion at this time.

This is a realistic assessment from a truly dedicated fan! People should be careful what they wish for. We can all blame Mark for appointing the likes of Keith Hill etc but he came with a decent CV. Finding someone who will get a team ‘punching above its weight’ is not easy and there is a strong element of luck in the right level of synergy being created between that individual and a middle of the range squad when it comes to its inherent quality.I know some might find my comments ‘defeatist’ but it is also worth reflecting that there are many teams in the NLN who we used to play twice a season in L2! Mark and Nicola has given us stability in an era where money has so much more say than it had in the past.

 

[bring back the cowshed!]

I think writing off this season is being realistic and not defeatist, but I am more optimistic for next season already. The bulk of the best squad members have long contracts and the dead wood can be released in June. Hopefully we can hang onto our best players, but at least this time (JDC apart) any leavers can attract fees to fund decent replacements.

I have some confidence that the development model can work. The Doohan and Nevitt deals were good business. The unknown is how successfully we can develop the EPL academy rejects. I would hope one or two might come through next season.

Re Micky, I think he must stay. I doubt he’ll get many better offers than a few more years at Rovers. I certainly don’t want to risk another Hill/Adams/Jackson appointment. Instead, I’d prefer Micky to continue to build and perhaps fund a better keeper and a more reliable goalscorer.

 

[Boz]

I'll divide my response into sections dealing with players and management;

PLAYERS

Hewelt. Having seen the second goal back, fault lies totally with Mateusz. Although O'Connor was on the line. it was on the keeper's side of the net. There didn't seem any clear reason why he didn't go for it either. The reason which is often put forward as to why players don't get a chance; not good in training can be reversed here. He obviously looked good enough in training and his other cup games for the management team to think that we didn't need to replace Doohan, although it's likely that we could have got another keeper in, the Everton youngster on loan at Chester has been suggested.

Defence: 1 defender sold, 1 recalled and 1 effectively written off this season in the window, to be replaced by one unfit midfielder who has played in defence. It was inevitable that one of the regular defenders would be unavailable soon. Jameson did ok last night, but he wasn't comfortable in the way Turnbull is and his ball control was erratic. Both he and Bristow could have done more to prevent the Bradford opener, although Bristow was quality going forward. Dacres-Cogley seems to have come down from the peaks since the window closed and last night Tom Davies was the stand-out defender.

Midfield: Hendry is an improvement on the previous midfielder, but he hasn't got on the scoresheet yet and none of his goal attempts have seriously tested the keeper, so less convinced on suggestions Regan would significantly improve the attack. Walker, looked good when in an attacking role at Doncaster, less so defensively. We saw how much Morris was missed when he went off, Chalmers on either side offered little defensively and not much more in attack, while Turner-Cooke was more involved, but agree with RLC's impression that he was perhaps finding it hard coming to grips playing in front of a hostile crowd. Hawkes provided more protection to Bristow than Chalmers did, but his attacking contribution was limited.

Attack: Hemmings seems to have lost his way, while Saunders works hard but hasn't found the back of the net yet. Mumbongo was dire at Doncaster, good at home to Salford and somewhere in between last night. I still feel Burton is more likely to score or create something though, but Jake seems to have dropped off Micky's radar again.

MANAGEMENT

The squad after the transfer window is much more one of Micky's and while the overall quality has improved, the balance hasn't, now a midfield-heavy rather than one packed with central defenders and still short of a consistent finisher up front. It doesn't look like we're going to be troubling the play-off contenders, which would be punching above our financial weight. If lower mid-table is the extent of our ability and resources, then support will wane further. Too early to decide, but I don't think it's a given Micky will be with us for next season.

 

[Higgy 2]

I think the season is dead now, performances including last night are overall ok, but results needed to upturn and they have not.
Whereas Bradford have a lot to play for, it appears they also have a minority hell bent on self-destruction. I honestly believe the funding of the team has held Micky back a lot, every August he barely has a side and by September there have been last minute signings of dubious quality. No one should be shocked that results are sub-par by then.
Fans almost expect a huge points handicap to be overcome by the January sales buys, they have to be fair but not this year.
If as seems likely Palios does not need to have very few employees in July, Micky may have a chance of hitting the season running.
Personally I will always believe the proof of my own eyes, a certain level of technical knowledge and a recognised bias towards certain playing styles. I don't care if the entire stand applaud the bombing on winger who spews crosses 20 metres too far, i will not join the fan club. We seem to be extending the modern world from bang average players of 20 being on super club's books to now clubs spending money on players of no true worth. Mad mad world.
Selling Doohan on one hand, Palios bank records, was genius but real players show a steep learning curve in their teens he was well past that and bizarrely his form dipping anyway entered a trough.
Bristow is an enigma, there so much to like and yet even more than Monthe a few fatal flaws. He was not defending at the second goal, he is supposed to pick a man or police any runners. His crosses tend to be atrocious except when he bullets low crosses across the front of goal. Such balls are appetising but not as good as picking a man in a yard and putting it in front him. On Saturday Morris got on the back of one, no one has much hope on the front post due to the strength of the cross, and frankly the defender should have cut it out.
Hawkes has become a good defender tracking back and works overlaps now Bristow shows a willing to kick on. However his stock, his right foot crosses are also atrocious and his hit and hope shots rarely even on target.
Those two are allegedly highly sort after, sell away.
Hendry impresses me but not sure Merrie was a problem, the net gain is minimal at best. O'Connor needs to be as deep as possible, his defensive skills are outstanding. His crosses that gain snow, atrocious and his shooting worse. Is Saunders more effective than Nevitt? Maybe just maybe.
The other two new wingers probably be hard to recall in a couple of years.
If you are kept out by Doohan, were Everton's 7th choice and played somewhere near the M6 junction last season- we should not be surprised.
Mumbungo has never had chance to get his game together, and where did he suddenly find after burners, surely he needs to start. Hemmings is becoming another failure not through his own fault but age, he was signed to get promotion on his last contract. His goals have mainly been textbook, he passes the ball into the net and doesn't try breaking the net. Doesn't happen much nor do major misses, there is an obvious cause. The fact is his last year is next year, his big effect was supposed to have taken place- promotion.
Summer recruitment was a disaster, I suspect lessons have been learnt and it is all under the carpet. The blowback continues.
On the upside Jamieson looking well low on confidence did ok and might have some mileage in him, just might.
For next season you have a back three with Bristow sold? Morris and central midfield with Hawkes sold. Hemmings and possibles.
Micky has a terrible habit of going all in on one player then suddenly freezing them out, I think he needs to stick with is convictions although some of them have looked certifiable at times. Fans demand change for changes sake when Micky has no options, trouble is now he has options he starts to fiddle.
Micky never completely screws up, nearly all do at this level, and he is far more likely to succeed with his squad than anyone else. Palios would be mad to twist here and am sure he won't.
I'll be busy as the nights drew back in now, so will return in the autumn in what may well be an end of an era, good or bad I don't know but critical I suspect!

Agree with many of the points made Inc. the type of balls into the box from wide areas and that Jameson is a decent squad player (cheap as well I would imagine). You're also right that we shouldn't be too surprised Hewelt is becoming a problem. Is there anyway we can bring an out of contract keeper or loanee in as it appears Murphy is only fir enough for the bench. We'll find out Saturday as I reckon if Joe was anywhere near ready Hewelt would be rested.
As for Mumbongo's pace, I understand he was a gifted sprinter in Sweden in his youth. 2 goals in 10 games in L1 with Accrington. He does have so.e good physical attributes - including pace it would seem. Maybe give him a sustained run if he's fit enough.
Gu en this is his first season ( I think) in senior football I reckon Bristow can mature into a good player at levels above L2. Maybe Championship.....or higher

 

[bigmart]

I think writing off this season is being realistic and not defeatist, but I am more optimistic for next season already. The bulk of the best squad members have long contracts and the dead wood can be released in June. Hopefully we can hang onto our best players, but at least this time (JDC apart) any leavers can attract fees to fund decent replacements.

I have some confidence that the development model can work. The Doohan and Nevitt deals were good business. The unknown is how successfully we can develop the EPL academy rejects. I would hope one or two might come through next season.

Re Micky, I think he must stay. I doubt he’ll get many better offers than a few more years at Rovers. I certainly don’t want to risk another Hill/Adams/Jackson appointment. Instead, I’d prefer Micky to continue to build and perhaps fund a better keeper and a more reliable goalscorer.

The development model only works if we sell a player and can replace him with a player of similar or better quality, in the case of Doohan we got decent money but not yet replaced him adequately.
I imagine that 4 or 5 will be sold in the summer as we are struggling financially as Mark and Nicola have had to put money in to cover this months wages which is s very worrying development.

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

Too early to decide, but I don't think it's a given Micky will be with us for next season.

I doubt here will be here either, but if it is a decision solely made on our part it will be the wrong decision. In reality, I don't think Mellon will want to stay in a situation where he receives heavy criticism from elements of the fanbase, but does not receive the financial backing he probably believes is necessary to win promotion. Expectation among some sections of the support does not match the reality at the moment.

A lot of Mellon's critics fail to recognise that his reputation in the game is still high, and his record of promotions at this level is second to none. If he left, he would not be short of offers in this division and the one below, and some of those clubs will have more money to spend than Tranmere. A future away from Prenton Park might be quite appealing to him.

 

[Ian]

In reality, I don't think Mellon will want to stay in a situation where he receives heavy criticism from elements of the fanbase, but does not receive the financial backing he probably believes is necessary to win promotion

All I would say is the situation has not changed since he took the job. It was clearly explained to him that money would be tight and that the club was moving into a development phase. Whether he has changed his mind since is a different matter but he certainly knew what he was getting into. Maybe he just loves the challenge as he does seem quite thick skinned when it comes to criticism.

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

All I would say is the situation has not changed since he took the job. It was clearly explained to him that money would be tight and that the club was moving into a development phase. Whether he has changed his mind since is a different matter but he certainly knew what he was getting into. Maybe he just loves the challenge as he does seem quite thick skinned when it comes to criticism.

That is not strictly true. The development model was only formally introduced last summer and he had already been here twelve months at that point.

In the previous season we had a largely experienced squad, and the switch to a greater emphasis on youth only came midway through his tenure.

 

[Ian]

Fair enough, maybe (hopefully) he still likes the challenge

 

[Keith Hill (Bolton)]

In my opinion, it does depend on what his contract talks and what the club offers, is what he can accept.
It could be a chance for the club to find another someone, who would help reduce the wage bill.
Personally I do hope it's not the end of MM, not only for the experienced in managing in league two, but his belief that Rovers could be a success. Who else is there, with the finances in a bit of difficulty? I hope that the board will let him decide.
He deserves so much credit for his time here. I would never have thought the unbelievable success that MM has brought to the club. Has everyone forgot the three Prenton Park South appearences?

After all the cutbacks in experienced staff and the January transfer window, it is a surprise to me that the club cannot afford the wages. What is happening to the club? There could be nothing more to cutback on!
If this continues, we could be looking at recievership!
What happened to the claim of a well run football club?

It does seem that we are back to pre palios days!

 

[O4anotherplayoff]

Moving on from the rather obvious anti Palios agenda…. Afaik, Mellon’s contract has never been disclosed so where does the assumption that he’s out of contract in the summer come from?

 

[Boz]

That is not strictly true. The development model was only formally introduced last summer and he had already been here twelve months at that point.

In the previous season we had a largely experienced squad, and the switch to a greater emphasis on youth only came midway through his tenure.

I seem to recall a thread on here suggesting that Micky was aware we'd be going down the development route when he signed, although things weren't in place to start it immediately. Remember being surprised at the time, as Micky didn't seem an obvious candidate for managing a development model based team, while he's perfectly capable of bringing on players, previously that had been in the context of a strong core of experience.

I agree with what you say about Micky may prefer to move on to a club with greater financial backing as his next step in management. I think that some of the blame for fans expectation levels being unrealistic at TRFC does lie with Mark Palios, who has raised rather than dampen them down with some of his remarks. While being a mid-table L2 side is infinitely better than being in the NL, if that is the reality of our aspirations then Micky may want to move on.

It's hard to gauge Micky's standing in the game currently. I was a bit surprised he didn't stay at Dundee Utd longer, but his work in keeping the newly promoted team in the Scots top flight was a decent achievement. His pre-Rovers record was pretty solid. Doubt he'd be out of work long, but if he does move on, it will be interesting to see what next.

 

[Sparky]

The irony is Dundee united currently sit bottom of the SPL and may well go down. Maybe they should have kept Micky!

 

[O4anotherplayoff]

The development model realised a net profit of transfer dealings of £75k in its first window, with another £500k of bids turned down. That £500k may well rise in the more active summer market, given that the players concerned likely won’t lose value between now and then, and that should comfortably offset the short term financing the owners mentioned at the Q&A. That’d be a decent return for its first two windows.

On the basis of these figures alone, it could be argued that MM is succeeding in developing talent. An overly simplistic argument, but not entirely without merit.

He obviously hasn’t yet struck the right balance between development and getting results. But that’s hardly surprising seeing as MP himself has virtually admitted the manager has had one hand tied behind his back, having to rely on an unbalanced squad and a shortage of striker options for half the season.

It’s hard to predict whether he’ll stay or move on in the summer but I wouldn’t be surprised if the club did want to retain him, despite what an element of the fan base may want.