League Two Rovers v Sutton

[Outoftowner]

I thought Merrie and O'Connor were both pretty poor, although Merrie improved a bit in the middle period of the game when we were on top. Interestingly, one of Micky's first comments in his interview was that the midfield was not good enough today.

Totally disagree - it’s quite amazing that people can watch the same thing and come to completely opposite options - it’s good thought otherwise we’d all be chasing the same women !

 

[ONIGP]

Agree broadly with RLC's report but I would actually go a bit further and say that in the 40 minutes referred to our play was sublime. It was impressive that we had the nouse to come back from a poor start and turn the tables; after 15 minutes it felt like a potential battering! All the subsequent good work was undone by 2 events; Doohan's howler and the fracas slightly later that completely destroyed our rhythm. Despite their antics it was actually our player (Morris?) who was the instigator. It was a hugely disappointing result in a game that we should have won and where we played the better football.

 

[ADD]

Disappointing to have got back into the game - led from 2 nice goals and then conceded what everyone (for once) agrees was another Doohan howler and then a horrendous flap at the end where on another day he would have cost us a point other than for an excellent block by Kane on the line.

Doohan simply isn't good enough - he wasn't when he was dropped last season - and he isn't now with zero improvement other than a little in his distribution and once again his confidence is clearly shot. He should never have been brought back (Murphy or MM who knows) - and I find it strange that he can still keep his place.

Watched it back and no way their first goal was offside - Turnbull left his man and went in for a rash tackle he was never going to make and Davis went with the wrong guy. It happens, but it was a very well worked goal to be fair with slick incisive quality passing at this level.

MM post match very interesting stressing he is doing his best and will continue to do his best. Sounds to me he would like to be somewhere else again or else getting pressure from on high. Once again suggested we started poorly - funny how a few weeks ago he bridled at that very suggestion from Derek and shot him down that we often did just that! Why is the fundamental question we so often aren't at the races early on.

Overall probably a decent point but given our position - yes I know we are only 4 points off the play offs but there are seven teams between us and them you have to wonder even if we could splash the cash will MP do so or will he with his business hat on simply want to keep it back and save for next season?

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

I am not sure we have started poorly on numerous occasions, but when we have lack of on-field leadership is probably an issue again.

We should try and improve the squad in every transfer window and in an evolving financial situation money withheld now won't necessarily be available in six months.

 

[dollar'sbloke]

Improving the squad in a window is undermined and effectively becomes an effort to stand still, when you let accomplished players walk away. I suspect Palios backs some young signings purely as a punt that he might sell them down the line. CBT may score the odd goal elsewhere but wasn't good enough. Doohan and Hawkes were not impressive at all on loan for me, the latter is making progress though. Bristow has obvious pluses but cannot defend like you expect from a professional.
The worst of the policy is the successes like O'Connor tend to walk and get better contracts with bigger clubs just as MacDonald did (even risked having no club for months).
Nevitt was fancied elsewhere but signed and as soon as he proved he could play signed on longer. MacDonald was clearly a strong player at this level and was allowed to wind his deal down, maybe because Palios thought a) he would not attract a big fee anytime- possibly right and b) he could be easily replaced in the huge pool of players out there- TRFC recruitment outcomes prove that as false, it is not easy success is about 50-50.
There is nothing wrong with keeping players who are genuinely good enough for Tranmere. You sell players who are good enough to make a decent jump up the system. BUT DON'T LET the genuinely good enough walk elsewhere for their own marginal gains, so players like Cogley, Davies, Turnbull, O'Connor, Morris and now Merrie should always start a season with more than one year. To put it into basic human terms, they are not paid fortunes and yet have potentially no job in a year's time- that isn't even decent employment.
If you can get players to regard the club as a good one and decline agents' attempts to chase every dollar, you will build a far better unit. Morris was sadly an exception, Khan was given no encouragement to stay and you suspect others were given a cold take it or leave it.

 

[Boz]

DB has Macdonald ended up
with a better contract at a bigger club though? He was out of contract for about 3 months after the season started, got a short term deal with Stockport, now extended to the end of the season. Stocky are certainly a richer club than us, so his deal is likely to have compensated for the spell of unemployment, but doubt that he’ll have gained financially significantly by not signing up again with Rovers. Stockport are in a better position than us, but probably haven’t kicked on as much as expected on their return to the FL, so at best they make the play-offs.

There are factors aside from finance at play too. Apparently, Macdonald believed he’d got an offer at Derby, which was rescinded with their change of owner and he wanted to move back to the midlands. Along with Foley, he’s the player I’d most like to have kept from last season. Bristow is very much a work in progress and at this point still think Macdonald is the better defender.

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

Bristow has much greater potential than MacDonald though.

 

[dollar'sbloke]

DB has Macdonald ended up
with a better contract at a bigger club though? He was out of contract for about 3 months after the season started, got a short term deal with Stockport, now extended to the end of the season. Stocky are certainly a richer club than us, so his deal is likely to have compensated for the spell of unemployment, but doubt that he’ll have gained financially significantly by not signing up again with Rovers. Stockport are in a better position than us, but probably haven’t kicked on as much as expected on their return to the FL, so at best they make the play-offs.

There are factors aside from finance at play too. Apparently, Macdonald believed he’d got an offer at Derby, which was rescinded with their change of owner and he wanted to move back to the midlands. Along with Foley, he’s the player I’d most like to have kept from last season. Bristow is very much a work in progress and at this point still think Macdonald is the better defender.

The point is once the agent has filled their heads, there is rarely any turning back. Not long ago Khan came up for a charity match locally he regretted leaving. My point is the club should make more effort and hopefully gain more continuity.
The absence of Clarke in the opening games hurt us and he left Merseyside at his age? Foley intends to end up in the West Country I believe, how did Barrow become attractive?
Your last bit is my critical point, the current side is weaker. Doohan was signed with an eye on selling downstream, signing another Davies that would set you fair for a good while but have very little sell on potential. Build a prosperous team and sales will occur naturally, they always have. Get promoted with a team signed up and someone will want part of you and pay for it.

 

[dollar'sbloke]

Bristow has much greater potential than MacDonald though.

I can see why you think that, he appears quite sexy but he is not a professional player in my opinion. It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that a manager somewhere might agree with you.
This week it was Doohan, third soft goal in three games and one good attempt at another. Bristow let his man step inside and have a clear header to score about five games ago. Bristow is a shoe in so I can confidently predict he will give another goal away in the next month or so, he continues to get out of position all the time but as a goalkeeper Doohan is more exposed in his faults.

 

[Ian]

but he is not a professional player in my opinion

what brings you to the conclusion he is not a professional player?

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

what brings you to the conclusion he is not a professional player?

I think he has got loads of potential.

With his pace and dribbling ability he has the natural attritubutes that a modern full back needs. The defensive side of his game needs improvement, but he has only played twenty matches.

 

[dollar'sbloke]

what brings you to the conclusion he is not a professional player?

He doesn't mark players properly allowing them to get goalside and not even seeing the problem after it happens. Also drifts into nomads land a lot setting up an easy one-two to bypass him and take him out of the game. It is the basics you look for at YTS level.
His big upside is his pace which tends not to last the whole career so he needs to use it. Sadly he sees one opponent and passes back, he really could roast the vast majority with sheer pace. I note someone claims he has good dribbling skills, CBT had, this lad is just push and go. His skills and reading look poor to me, but his early crosses could prove dangerous but don't actually happen enough.
My biggest worry is I couldn't drop him, there are no options

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

He doesn't mark players properly allowing them to get goalside and not even seeing the problem after it happens. Also drifts into nomads land a lot setting up an easy one-two to bypass him and take him out of the game. It is the basics you look for at YTS level.
His big upside is his pace which tends not to last the whole career so he needs to use it. Sadly he sees one opponent and passes back, he really could roast the vast majority with sheer pace. I note someone claims he has good dribbling skills, CBT had, this lad is just push and go. His skills and reading look poor to me, but his early crosses could prove dangerous but don't actually happen enough.
My biggest worry is I couldn't drop him, there are no options

He is a kid who has played only twenty matches and has plenty of time to improve on the weaker aspects of his game. He has lots of potential.

You can coach a player to improve their defensive positioning, but you can't coach them pace or athleticism.

 

[Ian]

Like it or not, these are exactly the type of players the club are looking to recruit. Young, great potential and hungry to learn. He’ll only get better.

 

[Keith Hill (Bolton)]

The overriding priority is something called balance!
There is no point in bringing in players If that balance doesn't work, potential, does not mean adapting to the teams make up, partnerships within shape, is necessary for the team to gel.
The number of times someone has mentioned the front players don't work well together is what is argued over, discussed. If a player regardless of talent, doesn't fit into that balance, it is difficult for the rest of the team to adjust to.. The dynamics of shape, formation and tactics. The need to adapt to changes and other issues which includes injuries,
Team building is what is done in training, assessment, tactics, positional awareness, variables and opposition.
Preparation is key, communication, planning, strategy, balance!
Set pieces, free kicks, for and against, corners, marking, zonal, defensive shape, attacking shape.
Work rate, fitness, mental strength, bravery, keen to learn, commitment, and an understanding of the structure of the club and its aims. To buy into the ethics of what the manager and coaches are trying to achieve.
The balance of the team and a winning attitude is why we have a manager and coaches. Spending time and money on the best aspects of football at this level is important. But if it's not working, it needs changing and we do have a manager that understands this.
One player can make a difference, but you need eleven players to make a team. And you need balance to compliment the different abilities of individuals and partnerships, required in a good team.

 

[drwhoman]

And the days of Alan Rough.

I know he was from Wales but this reminds me of 'careless hands' Gary Sprake!

 

[Boz]

I've now had the chance to watch the brief highlights of yesterday's game and also react to some of the comments on this thread. Outoftowner's point about people watching the same game and coming to totally different conclusions seems very pertinent. Everyone has favourites, players they think are underrated and others who they think .get cut too much slack, myself included .

Doohan first. It is a poor mistake for the Sutton second goal and the way he fails to deal. with the late effort, ultimately cleared off the line, suggests than his confidence was gone then. I don't think Ross is a bad keeper and there are some aspects of his game like distribution which are improving, from his early appearances in a Rovers shirt. Whether a short spell out of the limelight would help is debatable.

Merrie next. Chris was involved in both Rovers goals yesterday, the first peripherally, with the pass out to the right-wing. The second saw a slide-rule pass to Morris on the edge of the box, who then set up Hemmings. He's 24 exactly the same age as Doohan, so still some developing to do, but coming from a less prestigious background; Wigan as opposed to Celtic, balances out the fact that keepers are later developers.

Midfield creativity. While agreeing that the current line up offers less in this area, I'm less sure how crucial it is to our current failings. We still have good creativity from the wings and both full-backs, while Hemmings is one of the most creative forwards in recent years, frequently setting up opportunities for team-mates. Also until Nevitt and Mumbongo convert the quality of chances which were fluffed at Crewe it feels a bit academic.

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

Merrie did play a part in both goals. However, he gave the ball way a fair amount in the first half an hour, and both he and O'Connor did not do enough work without the ball to protect the back four in the periods when Sutton were on top.

I agree about Doohan. I was just particularly frustrated yesterday after a game we should have won.

 

[Am on mobile]

If both Nevitt and Joel left this week and we got another in i would not lose any sleep over it yes Nevitt runs around alot and scores the odd goal how he got the northwest Lg 2 player of the year award they must have been smoking somthing there he just looks like he is not going to score and its 11 games now with no goals for him just not good enough

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

Bradford losing at home to Rochdale, which is a good scoreline for us. The evergreen Ian Henderson with both goals for Dale.