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Euro 2012

SonkORLY?

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However, the Ukraine win makes it even less likely England will get past the group stage. Need to beat our Swedish nemesis to have a chance.

Unless you are superstitious, and I assume you aren't, then England's record vs Sweden is meaningless; Hodgson's squad is much better than either theirs or Ukraine's. Registering a point vs France was much more meaningful than than the outcome of that game, regardless of who won it. England are in a strong position and will most likely qualify.
 

Boz

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Unless you are superstitious, and I assume you aren't, then England's record vs Sweden is meaningless

That's some assumption, SonkORLY? Are you saying you're one of the few football fans who isn't superstitious?:lol:
 

Ian

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I don't think England will have any problem getting through the groups, although they do need to be a little more adventurous in the final third.

More good games today but it looks like the hosts are going to struggle getting past the groups. Tomorrow should be good. I'm predicting wins for Portugal and Germany.
 
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The main worry for me is what will we do if Gerrard or Parker is not fit?

Do not think Henderson is up to the job, makes you question why we didnt take another central midfielder. Would Jones fill the gap left?

Already Woy is worried about both Parker and Gerrards fitness and doesnt think both will be fit to start against the Swedes. I would like to see us go at Sweden and possibly drop milner for Walcott and keep the Ox on the other flank.
 

SonkORLY?

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There are a two main reasons that I think we will line-up similarly against Sweden and possibly not look to overload the attack like a lot of people seem to want/hope.

Although they didn't show it versus Ukraine, Sweden's build up play is generally quite slowly and they tend to hold possession for long periods. Ibra usually play as a traditional number 10, at times forming a 3 man midfield. Considering this, the rigidity of Hodgsons 4-4-1-1 means England probably won't dominate possession, even against a lower class of opposition. Henderson is not a world class footballer but with a one man deficit in the centre his energy could be useful.

Then there's the fact that Sweden need the win more than us really - both full-backs are adventurous to the point of being a liability, so soaking up pressure and looking to counter may be a good option for England. Milner's concentration and willingness to track players gives Hodgson the freedom to select Ox or Theo on the other side; I would be surprised if both played.

If I'm wrong and we just decide to just go for it we could have a crazy game on our hands - we don't really need to be getting involved in something like that, which is exactly why I don't think we'll succumb to taking the game to them.
 

SonkORLY?

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Counter-attacking rhetoric used in today's press conference with Hodgson
 
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I am impressed with the team spirit and (for the majority) the discipline of the side so far under Hodgson, and I think his appointment as manager has been vindicated, BUT... if we play as we did in the first twenty minutes of the second half against Sweden against one of the better sides in the competition, we will be absolutely murdered. In truth, even if we were to put in a solid defensive display for ninety minutes, it is difficult to see how we would get past Spain in the quarter finals.
 

SonkORLY?

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Both sides were (are?) awful
 
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It wasnt great but in tournament football as the germans and Italians have shown in the past is all about getting out of the group and building from there. I am pleased Rooney is back and will certainly bring some added quality to the squad, plus he looks like his is chomping at the bit to get involved.
Cant help thinking the introduction of walcott demonstrated how pace can hurt teams and how defenders are afraid of it. Simply the introduction of Walcott forced the Swede back line inside their own penalty area. Would like to see Walcott start against Ukraine and possibly give Ox a go on the othwer flank. Would keep Carroll in the team and stick Rooney up alongside him.
The main thing we need to work on tho is keeping hold of the ball. We give it away far too easy and invite pressure.
 
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I thought we showed great spirit again tonight and Hodgson deserves great credit for coming out on top in the group; I can't remember the last time we put in such a strong performance in the group stages.

Avoiding Spain was a great bonus, but I don't know a great deal about the Italians, other than the old-stagers like Pirlo. Victory would see us line up against Germany in a semi-final yet again, which could be a case of third time lucky after the defeats in 1990 and 1996 ?
 

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Thought England were lucky winners, Ukraine had a goal not given when Terry cleared after it crossed the line and one good save from Hart. Still, it's a results business and we finished top. Spain haven't been at their best and not much to choose between them and the Italians.
 

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What goes around comes around in football. Lampard was unlucky, we got lucky tonight. England were disappointing though. Far too cautious and they will definitely have to be more industrious against the Italians. Nice to be in the quarters though.
 

SonkORLY?

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Thought England were lucky winners, Ukraine had a goal not given when Terry cleared after it crossed the line and one good save from Hart. Still, it's a results business and we finished top. Spain haven't been at their best and not much to choose between them and the Italians.

He was offside in the first place so you can't make much of a moral argument about that goal tbh. Wouldn't say England were lucky winners at all. They defended and counter-attacked pretty well. While striving for high standards is fine, people really have to stop this obsession with the fact that England aren't very good at keeping possession (nor are they tactically set up to be) and give some credit where it's due: the general shape of the team is good and Roy is simply playing to the strengths of the squad.

Italy will cause England a lot of problems. Rooney isn't very good at playing goalside of a 3rd midfielder, see performances vs Busquets in the past. Notably this figure will be Pirlo. Maggio will force Young even further back than last night. Vs 2 deep banks of four you need intelligence more than pace or power, and the movement of Balotelli and Cassano will also cause problems. Hodgson should probably change from 4-4-1-1, but won't.
 

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Well I thought Ukraine played well enough for at least a draw. England aren't very good, period. I see no problem in accepting that. They've done as well as expected, anything else is a bonus.
 

SonkORLY?

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Not very good compared to who? They are one of the top 10 teams in the world for me, possibly the best in the world defensively.
 

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Not very good compared to who? They are one of the top 10 teams in the world for me, possibly the best in the world defensively.

England?? IF we had a fully fit squad then yes we are a top 10 team, maybe top 6, but the state the team is in, getting out the group is an achievement...
 

SonkORLY?

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Why? this England squad is far better than that of Ukraine or Sweden. Never top 6 even when fully fit imo, but I think you would struggle to name 10 better sides...
 
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In terms of playing as a team and actually showing the intent to win matches, this England side is probably the best we have had since Euro 96. Getting rid of many of the so-called 'golden generation' has probably been a blessing in disguise and has allowed those big names that remain, like Gerrard and Terry, to knuckle down and play a team role.

No-one would suggest that this is the most talented side in the world, but the continued negativity towards England from many of their own supporters baffles me.
 

Boz

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In terms of playing as a team and actually showing the intent to win matches, this England side is probably the best we have had since Euro 96. Getting rid of many of the so-called 'golden generation' has probably been a blessing in disguise and has allowed those big names that remain, like Gerrard and Terry, to knuckle down and play a team role.

No-one would suggest that this is the most talented side in the world, but the continued negativity towards England from many of their own supporters baffles me.

I would agree that there is a better team spirit with England now, but this side is nowhere near the calibre of the one that turned over Holland at Euro 96. Gerrard has played well of the stalwarts, as has Cole, less sure about Terry.

I'm a mongrel Brit rather than pure English, so while I hope England do well, I'm detached enough not to close my eyes to their weaknesses. The positives cannot hide the fact there are few world-class players in the current side.
 

SonkORLY?

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Same - I don't follow England for patriotic reasons, but more-so because I am a fan of the Premiership. That being as it may, I agree with RLC about the continued negativity shown by many English fans towards the current set-up.

Flying head-first into into a semantic black hole here but Hart, Cole, Terry and Rooney are 'world class' for me. The majoity of the squad comprises of players who regularly feature in European competition for their clubs, who are themselves in and around the upper echelons of the most competitive league in the world. Aside from Spain and Germany, no team in this competition can boast of having more than 5 'world class' players really.
 
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