Welling v Rovers

[Gray]

Dreadful. None of the players look like they know what their jobs are on the pitch and we're playing with zero confidence, nobody willing to make a run or take defenders on. Yet again we've conceded straight after a substitution, it was a wonder strike but how long did he have to tee it up? Nobody closing down.

It wasn't a red, wasn't even a booking but having said that we scored from a corner which should never have been given. Rubbish football deserves rubbish refereeing. Draw was a fair result in the end.

SWA seemed rather subdued.

Good to see Brian Little, would have him back in a heartbeat.

 

[Ian]

Don't forget though, we need give this team time to gel. Can't see anything different this season from last season.

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

Just got back, and I must admit I did not think it was as bad as some on here are suggesting. The first half was poor, but we did respond with the formation change and a better attitude after the break and if it had not been for the red card (apparently the wrong decision, I was too far away to see) we would have seen the game out for the win. While accepting that the display was far from brilliant, I am guessing the TV summarisers were pretty negative about us which has influenced a lot of the comment on here ?

No reason why we would walk away with the three points, as Welling have already drawn with Eastleigh at home.

It was not great and Brabin still does not seem to know his best eleven, or even formation, but I enjoyed the day more than many on here seem to have done. At least most other results went for us and we are still in touching distance of the play-offs.

 

[Ian]

If the aim is to reach the playoffs this season, we have to start playing a lot better. We haven't won in four games. In fact, two points from a possible twelve. I see a lot of talk is about the second half and yes while we came out much better in the second half, it still wasn't wonderful and the first half was shocking. Why has it taken us 45 minutes to start playing? That's not good enough. Plus really, on Welling's shoestring budget and size, we should be beating these teams. If things don't improve, we can kiss the playoffs goodbye.

I see some decent play in parts but over 90 minutes, it's not enough.

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

If the aim is to reach the playoffs this season, we have to start playing a lot better. We haven't won in four games. In fact, two points from a possible twelve. I see a lot of talk is about the second half and yes while we came out much better in the second half, it still wasn't wonderful and the first half was shocking. Why has it taken us 45 minutes to start playing? That's not good enough. Plus really, on Welling's shoestring budget and size, we should be beating these teams. If things don't improve, we can kiss the playoffs goodbye.

I see some decent play in parts but over 90 minutes, it's not enough.

Yes, I agree generally. I just did not see much difference between today's game and the previous seven (perhaps that is the problem!) but because it was on the telly everyone goes apoplectic. It was noticeable that the mood of the fans in the ground was not as negative as on the internet forums. I stand by my comment that, as average as the performance was, without the red card we would have won 1-0 (the same score that Forest Green and Wrexham had against Welling).

The question is, how do we respond to this mediocre start to the season ? Give Brabin the boot and face the same chaos and disruption we had in the previous two seasons ? Brabin must know we have to improve massively, but other than Forest Green nobody is playing with any consistency. Grimsby fans could make exactly the same complaint as us. We still have time to improve, although I agree the improvement has to come fairly soon.

Chester next week is a big game for GB.

 

[drwhoman]

Very disappointing. I just hope they pick up soon. Maybe a fitter Norwood will make a difference. On another gloomy point. Danny Holmes was sent off as Newport lost at home.

 

[Ian]

I certainly don't think giving Brabin the boot is the answer, but I still don't think he knows his best XI yet with all the chopping and changing. Yes there is time, but we must be careful we don't fall away too much.

I think our midfield has to improve massively. We need service up front and we need to be up and at them. We need to be working just as hard as the opposition which I don't think we are. If we were, we would cause problems. Look at the last home game. First 45 was very good but let's up the performance and do it for 90 minutes. We have the players, but we certainly aren't seeing the best of them at the moment.

Over to GB..

 

[Boz]

In response to RLCs point, I didn't think the commentary was that negative, though there was some empathy for Welling. It was useful in highlighting our defensive frailties and lack of shape at the back, things which aren't always evident (to me anyway) actually watching the game.

I didn't understand why we were so ponderous. Win back the ball at the edge of our own area, then slow things down so much, that by the time the ball crossed the half-way line, Welling had 10 or 11 behind the ball. The hosts had lost 3 on the bounce and were a young team, had we started with a similar line-up to the 2nd half v Kidderminster, with Jackson and gone at them from the off, we could have dented their confidence by getting on top from the start.

With regard to Gray's point about conceding after a substitution, this time I thought it was the right thing bringing Holness on, though might have opted to replace Norwood rather than Mangan.

Brabin doesn't help himself, I feel. His post match remarks suggest we played well and were unlucky and undone by dubious officials, were not an accurate reflection of what I was watching. The small squad system he prefers is a hinderance. If we're without Sutton for the next three games [and while I don't think he deserved sending-off, for the reasons given earlier, we won't succeed on appeal] and with Riley apparently injured, it would be good to move Ihiekwe into the centre and loan a right-back. Holness does not look the part at present.

I am not looking forward to Chester...

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

I have just watched the full TV footage: biased drivel from Adam Virgo (although his comments on our back four were accurate and interesting) but more balanced comments from Little and Hutchings who admitted that, after a poor first half, they could only see us winning in the second half before the wonder goal.

I agree with Boz about the ponderous build up. It has been a problem all season, home and away, and is something that has not been addressed. I would also have liked to see us start with Jackson. However, in fairness to Brabin he said in midweek that Marlon is not fit enough yet to last ninety minutes. Similarly, the injury to Riley restricted our ability to play three at the back unless Holness started, which none of us wanted.

I don't necessarily agree that the small squad is a bad thing. The alternative is having greater numbers and lower quality, which is the combination that got us into this mess in the last two seasons. It is pretty unusual to have two first choice centre backs injured / suspended and theoretically Holness should be able to fill in. However, Brabin probably does not really want him here, but has to use him because he is under contract.

I am not looking forward to Chester either.

 

[Brightonian]

This was my first visit to any game this season and to be honest it was very sobering to see the very poor standard of play and the lack of understanding between players which might be expected in the first couple of games but not after eight.

Sitting on an old wooden floored stand and with fans changing ends at half time at least brought back memories of how it used to be at games 50 years ago.

My hopefully objective impressions of the new team: On the positive side I was greatly impressed by Scott Davies who not only kept us in the game in the first half but showed command and authority of his area which was a refreshing change over recent seasons. Also thought Liam Hogan looks a competent composed player and seems a good acquisition. Clearly Andy Mangan has ability and he really was the only one who was likely to make anything happen and came looking for the ball and tried to get moves going. Despite his goal Lois Maynard looked a fish out of water and his technical abilities seem rather limited . I thought James Norwood was highly disappointing in terms of end product and threat although he does dash around alot (but so did George Donnelly) and after all the hype when signing do not feel too optimistic about him but love to have misjudged on first impressions.

As has been said very accurately we are just too ponderous in the build up with little prospect of getting behind the defence and moves breaking down tamely.

As suggested by Boz agree have Ihiekwe in central defence as Holness still looks way off ready and bring in a right back with pace who can overlap and cross as some of the attempts to get balls in the box yesterday were woeful.

Whilst we might have held out for an unlikely victory had the red card incident not taken place this really would only disguise the need to greatly improve if there is to be any chance at all of being near the play off places. On paper we have the experience and calibre required but on this showing we looked very much a mid table outfit in a poor league. Despite lifting the attendance to over 1k for Welling to be their highest so far I thought the SWA were the most subdued I have witnessed in years. If we keep on like this all the early season enthusiasm and impetus will be lost which is my fear in particular .

 

[bigmart]

We were very poor especially in the first half, our defence was pulled all over the place and there were huge gaps everywhere, if it wasn't for the keeper we would have been 2 or 3 down. An improved 2nd half showing and a joke of a decision to send off Sutton but really we did not deserve to win the game.

We had virtually no width, Maynard is good in the air but otherwise poor and certainly no use wide of a midfield 3 & ive been saying since pre-season that we need a specialist right back. We look a long way off being a side that will challenge for the play offs

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

I thought Norwood did ok in the second half yesterday. We need to remember he is coming back from medium term injury and was top scorer in this division twice with Forest Green, so the comparison with George Donnelly is a bit harsh.

We could get away with Ihiekwe at right back if he had a natural right winger ahead of him, which Maynard clearly is not. The right hand side of the team was very poor yesterday, both going forward and defensively.

 

[Ian]

I think we'll see a lot more of Norwood when he's fit again. Still doesn't help our problem with width though.

I'm also not too fussed with Ridehalghs forward role. Jackson looks OK and seems confident enough to take people on and get crosses in something that I think we lack on the left. Ridehalgh whilst you might get the odd cross out of him can't get past his man.

Harris has also been quite poor since his goal against Woking. Was expecting more from him.

 

[Sparky]

I only saw the first half having to drag myself away from the TV for a wedding. I thought we were very poor and only Davies came out with any credit. Maynard in particular looked totally lost but again this is largely due to GB putting him on the right.

It was a surprise thereafter to learn he had scored but not a surprise we conceded after going down to 10 men.

I agree with the above that we still have problems out the wide. Ridehalgh started the season fairly well but is a left back after all. Jackson is our only player with real pace and should play Imo. Agree with Ian about Harris who has contributed very little. Norwood I'm not convinced about but can we have the luxury of playing half fit players?

Things are a long way from looking rosy and we only have to hope that in time GB and the players will get it right. 3 games in 6 days starting next Sat will be interesting including 2 local derbies and a tough trip to Grimsby.

 

[Boz]

The small squad theory works better if you have one decent player for each position in the formation you intend to field. The players Brabin recruited are in the main perfectly capable at this level, but there is a lack of balance. 3 central defenders, no right-back. 3 midfielders + Jackson 3 forwards, none of whom are blessed with pace or function as an effective target man. The recruitment suggests a lack of thought of how ie what formation we were going to adopt, with the consequence that we always seem to end up with at least one, often more deployed out of position.

Agree with Ian about Ridehalgh. Harris tends to drift in and out of games though got us the point with a header off the line. Norwood too early to judge, though Forest Green fans think he actually plays better out wide. However, so far Maynard has been the biggest disappointment. While being played mostly out of position is a factor, it does not totally excuse the indifferent performances.

I was a little surprised Blissett didn't feature even on the bench, is he injured or has Brabin given up on the target-man idea?

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

I agree that there is a lack of balance in the squad. However, I think the real deficiency is the absence of a creative midfield player. Jennings and Harris are very similar and spend a lot of their time in deep positions; Maynard is decent at getting in to the box, but is not good on the ball. When you combine this with an absence of width (at least until Jackson is match fit) it is not surprising we struggle to break teams down.

I think you also have to question what happens on the training ground. Boz highlights a lack of pace up front, but we certainly have players with good movement, in Norwood, Mangan and even Margetts, but we don't make enough use of them and lack a threat in behind. In general, I just don't think we have a clear pattern of play, particularly compared to a team like Wrexham, who probably have poorer individual players than us but have a clear pass and move ethos.

 

[bring back the cowshed!]

I followed the BBC Livetext with increasing alarm and the reports above only reinforced my concern. What is going on? We are changing formation frequently, often in the middle of a match. This is normal and - I would argue - sensible, as long as we get the appropriate set up for the opposition and the match position. My main concern is the incredible number of personnel changes made from match to match. Only our goalie and captain seem certain to play. Even when we win, three or four changes are made. Is GB still working out his best eleven or is he rotating his squad to keep everyone fit and happy? This is most obvious in attack, where we seem to have a different front two almost every game. I think so many changes are confusing and don't allow the players to settle. I hope I'm wrong and we will soon see the benefits of this policy, but it's interesting that a group of strangers started the season so well, while now they should know each other better, they seem to be losing the plot. I think we should keep faith with GB, who has had success at this level before - although I did say the same thing about Micky Adams! Most of us thought it would take about 10 games before we could/should judge how things are going. That time is up soon. Grimsby are a good side and derbies are always tough, but if this squad has the resilience to become play-off contenders, they should be able to show it during the next two weeks. I'd accept four points from the three games, but I am hoping we can get at least six.

 

[Ian]

it's interesting that a group of strangers started the season so well, while now they should know each other better, they seem to be losing the plot

I don't think we can really count the first couple of games, bit of a red herring really and in fact those first couple of results only helped to pile the pressure and expectation onto the team as I think many thought we were going to win every game.

We won three out of the first four games, but when you look at those games, we were hardly dominating. We struggled against Woking, Gateshead was a freak result, struggled to break down Braintree with a 0-0 draw and then another 1-0 against Halifax, not an easy game. Results were masking the medicore performances and we've not improved or gelled any more. I don't buy giving the team more time excuses now. OK, first few games, but not after eight games.

 

[drwhoman]

Gary keeps saying that the opposition are always up for it against Tranmere. When is our team going to be up for it? It can only get better (he hopes!).

 

[Boz]

See that Richie Sutton's red card has been overturned. Pleasantly surprised, as thought they might have turned it down on the basis of some contact.