England v Iran

[Ian]

England's first game in the World Cup is against Iran. More news as the game gets closer.

 

[ALDO MUSSY]

5-0 Iran it's England and a bunch of overpaid pre-Madona's i might watch but not really botherd

 

[Ian]

6-2 and I think the ref felt sorry for Iran giving that soft penalty in the end. Good, morale boosting victory for England and great to see a host of goalscorers.

 

[bigmart]

6-2 and I think the ref felt sorry for Iran giving that soft penalty in the end. Good, morale boosting victory for England and great to see a host of goalscorers.

It shows how bad var is, Maguire was rugby tackled first half nothing given their penalty was never a penalty

 

[Sparky]

It’s the inconsistency that’s annoying. Either give both a penalty, or neither. It can’t be just one. As Ian suggests you wonder had it been a lot closer would it have been given.

A good performance but much tougher tests to come. That said, I didn’t realise Iran were 20th in the world rankings

 

[Goody Two Shoes]

Well done to the Iranian players for not singing their national anthem. Some things in life are more important than football. There’s a stench about this tournament with the oppression that exists in the host country. Some say don’t mix politics and sport, I say those with influence should speak out.
That old adage of you can only beat what’s in front of you applies and it’s the sort of fixture England have huffed and puffed in during some previous tournaments, so it is a good start.

 

[bigmart]

USA 1 up against a very poor Wales team so far

 

[Ian]

Yes, very poor bigmart. We should be comfortably winning this group.

 

[O4anotherplayoff]

There’s a stench about this tournament with the oppression that exists in the host country. Some say don’t mix politics and sport, I say those with influence should speak out.

Yes, the influential West has a long and impressive record of imposing its values and culture on others.

Well done FIFA for kicking the virtue signalling into touch. The underlying messages have been delivered anyway.

 

[Goody Two Shoes]

Yes, the influential West has a long and impressive record of imposing its values and culture on others.

Well done FIFA for kicking the virtue signalling into touch. The underlying messages have been delivered anyway.

One man’s virtue signalling is another man’s conscience. Give me the liberties we enjoy any day of the week, including the freedom to have contrasting opinions.
You’re correct, the past was particularly chequered, but I know where I’m content living and the pros far outweigh the cons; admittedly, always room for further progress.
How do you think England did?

 

[O4anotherplayoff]

Yes, we’ve created our society which, for better or worse suits us, and the Arabs have created theirs which, for better or worse, suits them. Both have, and will continue to evolve in their own way. And long after most of the virtue signallers have stopped ‘caring’ about the latter, in a month or so.

England won 6-2. Southgate summed up the performance and its takeaways perfectly, I thought.

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

Yes, we’ve created our society which, for better or worse suits us, and the Arabs have created theirs which, for better or worse, suits them. Both have, and will continue to evolve in their own way. And long after most of the virtue signallers have stopped ‘caring’ about the latter, in a month or so.

What nonsense.

Did the thousands of workers who were murdered to facilitate the tournament decide their fate ? Ordinary citizens don't 'create' their own society in an authoritarian state. Your suggestion that 'the Arabs' all live in identical societies, with an equivalent lack of concern for human rights, is also highly prejudiced and inaccurate.

There are justifiable humanitarian concerns regarding the staging of this tournament. I think by 'virtue signaller' you mean a human being with any kind of moral compass.

 

[Boz]

USA 1 up against a very poor Wales team so far

Yes, very poor bigmart. We should be comfortably winning this group.

Thought Wales played much better second half and deserved at least the draw they got. England sometimes get bogged down against the other home nations, but should be capable of beating the USA and reduce the importance of the final group match

 

[Ian]

Yes, Wales were much better second half although still not a great side in all honesty. Without Bale, distinctly average.

 

[O4anotherplayoff]

What nonsense.

Did the thousands of workers who were murdered to facilitate the tournament decide their fate ? Ordinary citizens don't 'create' their own society in an authoritarian state. Your suggestion that 'the Arabs' all live in identical societies, with an equivalent lack of concern for human rights, is also highly prejudiced and inaccurate.

There are justifiable humanitarian concerns regarding the staging of this tournament. I think by 'virtue signaller' you mean a human being with any kind of moral compass.

I’m well aware - far more than clearly you‘d believe, given this ridiculous distortion of what I’ve said - that “all Arabs” don’t live in identical societies. Like, guess what, all Westerners don’t live in identical societies either.

By virtue signaller I’m referring to the faux white saviour types who delude themselves into thinking they have a monopoly on “conscience” - often through nothing more than tokenism - when, in reality, their only point of reference is their own cultural perspective, which just has to be held up as THE example to other cultures. THAT’s prejudice, incidentally, although they‘ll never see it that way.

Cross-cultural change for the better is way, way more nuanced than that. Relies on an understanding, appreciation and willingness to accommodate the customs, beliefs and values of the other culture, even if differences run deep. Failure to do so just muddies the waters and rarely produces anything of real value. And, in general, much of the hoo ha in the UK about this tournament has failed to do that. That’s what strikes some of the conscientious amongst us.

I didn’t get beyond the headlines of Infantino’s headline-grabbing press conference the other day, but I believe he referred to various improvements hosting this tournament has brought/will bring about within Qatari society, including on issues about which it’s received criticism. Yes, of course, he would say that anyway and, for all I know, he may have been talking nonsense. But that’s the level at which real change for the better happens, not through token gestures by culturally-naive Westerners in town for a month, or on social media, the internet etc, however well-meaning.

Anyway, here’s hoping Harry Kane breaks his duck on Friday!

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

By virtue signaller I’m referring to the faux white saviour types who delude themselves into thinking they have a monopoly on “conscience” - often through nothing more than tokenism - when, in reality, their only point of reference is their own cultural perspective, which just has to be held up as THE example to other cultures. THAT’s prejudice, incidentally, although they‘ll never see it that way.

I really have no idea what any of this stuff has to do with perfectly understandable and justifiable complaints about a major sporting competition being handed to a country that commits flagrant human rights abuses. The very term 'virtue signaller' is pejorative, meaningless nonsense.

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

I’m well aware - far more than clearly you‘d believe, given this ridiculous distortion of what I’ve said - that “all Arabs” don’t live in identical societies. Like, guess what, all Westerners don’t live in identical societies either.

Yes, precisely. Just as we should not condone the actions of Hitler or Stalin, we should not condone those of illiberal, repressive regimes outside Europe. And to pass a moral judgement on those regimes has nothing to do with 'virtue signalling'. It is about maintaining basic moral standards.

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

I just watched the full replay of the England game and I thought we were very impressive. Yes, the standard of the opposition was poor but England sides have laboured against far poorer opposition in the past.

We were much more expressive with four at the back than with a five man defence, so it will be interesting to see whether Southgate sticks with that system for the other group games. He is criticised for caution, but whatever system we play he seems able to relax the players for tournament games unlike the majority of his predecessors. I still worry a bit about the defence though.

 

[O4anotherplayoff]

Yes, precisely. Just as we should not condone the actions of Hitler or Stalin, we should not condone those of illiberal, repressive regimes outside Europe. And to pass a moral judgement on those regimes has nothing to do with 'virtue signalling'. It is about maintaining basic moral standards.

The point is that what’s morally unacceptable to some societies is morally acceptable to others. To conflate that notion with attitudes towards the likes of Hitler isn’t just absurd, it’s an unexpectedly premature invocation of Godwin’s Law!

 

[O4anotherplayoff]

I really have no idea what any of this stuff has to do with perfectly understandable and justifiable complaints about a major sporting competition being handed to a country that commits flagrant human rights abuses. The very term 'virtue signaller' is pejorative, meaningless nonsense.

Time will tell if awarding Qatar the WC ultimately improved the situation on the ground, using any range of measures, or reinforced the status quo. It would also be good to compare those outcomes with the outcomes achieved by the virtue signallers with their various gestures.

For pejorative meaningless nonsense we need look no further than “thousands of workers who were murdered”.