• Nigel Adkins has been given the Tranmere job on a permanent basis signing until the end of the 25/26 season. Continue the discussion here.

England v Iran

Match result

  • England

    Votes: 4 80.0%
  • Draw

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Iran

    Votes: 1 20.0%

  • Total voters
    5
England v Iran
Posted by Ian
Khalifa International Stadium
Monday, November 21, 2022 - 01:00 PM
Until: Monday, November 21, 2022 - 03:00 PM
(Adjusted for timezone: Europe/London)
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The point is that what’s morally unacceptable to some societies is morally acceptable to others. To conflate that notion with attitudes towards the likes of Hitler isn’t just absurd, it’s an unexpectedly premature invocation of Godwin’s Law!
Hitler was an authoritarian leader who imprisoned and murdered homesexuals, removed the rights of women and had no respect for either the rule of law or basic human rights. In these respects he had much in common with authoritarian leaders in the world today, so rather than my comparison being absurd perhaps your knowledge of history is deficient.

Try Putin if you want a contemporary analogy. I presume you would be perfectly happy for this World Cup to be staged in Moscow ? My point was that just as we pass judgement on repressive regimes in Europe, we should do the same to those elsewhere.

The behaviour of the Iranian footballers today and Iranian women in recent months suggests that far from being 'morally acceptable', the actions of authoritarian regimes are often resisted by their own populations. You seem to equate the values of an entire society with repressive laws imposed from above by a hated regime.
 
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For pejorative meaningless nonsense we need look no further than “thousands of workers who were murdered”.
How would you describe their deaths then ? 'Collateral damage' ?!

I presume you realise that in a democratic society the tournament organisers would be in jail for industrial manslaughter ?

And yes, 'virtue signaller' is pejorative, alt-right drivel.
 
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I’ll leave you to your increasingly bizarre misinterpretations, misrepresentations and abuse.

Let’s hope we’re a lot better at putting the ball into the net tomorrow than you‘ve been at putting words into my mouth tonight! lol
 
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I’ll leave you to your increasingly bizarre misinterpretations, misrepresentations and abuse.

Let’s hope we’re a lot better at putting the ball into the net tomorrow than you‘ve been at putting words into my mouth tonight! lol
I can't see anything abusive in my posts. And if you are going to debate a subject as serious and sensitive as this in public, you can expect strong responses.

And as for misinterpretations and misrepresentations........
 
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The point made earlier about Iran being ranked 20th by FIFA says more about FIFA and their rankings than Iran’s footballers. Remember, FIFA’s technical experts originally passed Qatar as a suitable venue for a World Cup to be held in summer. Without their approval, Qatar would not even have made the shortlist.
 
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I really have no idea what any of this stuff has to do with perfectly understandable and justifiable complaints about a major sporting competition being handed to a country that commits flagrant human rights abuses.
That’s the missing link then. Because the counter argument to that (and balanced with all the other selection criteria) is that the awarding of such a competition can be a catalyst for change, not just on human rights but across a whole range of societal issues. It’ll probably take months if not years to evaluate those outcomes and draw meaningful overall conclusions - may well result in net benefits, or may just end up reinforcing the status quo. Might even make things worse, in theory. Maybe wearing an armband or some other token gesture will achieve more, although I rather doubt it.
 
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Would be happy to get more engrossed in the debate, but too busy being a snowflake, virtue signalling and being woke.
Off to work now to make strides in improving the lives of and changing attitudes towards a particular group of people in our society who’re still exposed to discrimination and hate crime; progress still required as in my previous post, but I’ll still reserve the right to criticise other societies that need to evolve more briskly.
Kind of an aside, but “A Handmaid’s Tale”, for those with time to kill and who haven’t already had the “pleasure”, is fictional, near the knuckle and kind of a cross-cultural adaptation worth watching; it ain’t that far from reality in some respects.
I get over my unconscious bias of not particularly caring about the England football team and I’ll be quietly wanting them to do well, even if just for my sons (plural) sake, who’re well-engrossed.
 

bigmart

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Back to the football, Moore coming on up front gave Wales a presence and somebody to hold the ball up which got them further up the pitch in the second half.
For me Bellingham was very impressive and has a lot of talent, credit to Southgate for starting him and also starting Saka too.
 
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That’s the missing link then. Because the counter argument to that (and balanced with all the other selection criteria) is that the awarding of such a competition can be a catalyst for change, not just on human rights but across a whole range of societal issues. It’ll probably take months if not years to evaluate those outcomes and draw meaningful overall conclusions - may well result in net benefits, or may just end up reinforcing the status quo. Might even make things worse, in theory. Maybe wearing an armband or some other token gesture will achieve more, although I rather doubt it.
Berlin 1936, Beijing 2008 and Moscow 2018 suggest that positive change is unlikely.
 
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For me Bellingham was very impressive and has a lot of talent, credit to Southgate for starting him and also starting Saka too.
I thought he was outstanding. The way he reads the game and glides past people is remarkable for a nineteen year old.
 
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Would be happy to get more engrossed in the debate, but too busy being a snowflake, virtue signalling and being woke.
Off to work now to make strides in improving the lives of and changing attitudes towards a particular group of people in our society who’re still exposed to discrimination and hate crime; progress still required as in my previous post, but I’ll still reserve the right to criticise other societies that need to evolve more briskly.
Kind of an aside, but “A Handmaid’s Tale”, for those with time to kill and who haven’t already had the “pleasure”, is fictional, near the knuckle and kind of a cross-cultural adaptation worth watching; it ain’t that far from reality in some respects.
I get over my unconscious bias of not particularly caring about the England football team and I’ll be quietly wanting them to do well, even if just for my sons (plural) sake, who’re well-engrossed.
Whoosh! Certainly of little relevance to any point I’ve made.
Berlin 1936, Beijing 2008 and Moscow 2018 suggest that your optimism is misplaced.
Where I come from, reserving judgment until outcomes can be assessed to any meaningful degree is known as objectivity, not optimism.

I‘m interested in lasting change, not tokenism that achieves nothing apart from making some feel all warm and fuzzy and oddly superior about their “conscience”. It’s good that the latter isn’t being allowed to infect the tournament.
 
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Whoosh! Certainly of little relevance to any point I’ve made.

Where I come from, reserving judgment until outcomes can be assessed to any meaningful degree is known as objectivity, not optimism.

I‘m interested in lasting change, not tokenism that achieves nothing apart from making some feel all warm and fuzzy and oddly superior about their “conscience”. It’s good that the latter isn’t being allowed to infect the tournament.
I can't think of any repressive regime that has seen the light and reformed following the propaganda coup of a global tournament.

I think you are confusing the wider population, many of whom will want change, and the regime, which does not. An improvement in the human rights record in Iran, Qatar etc. will in all likelihood not be realised until the current regimes are removed.
 

bigmart

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Saudi Arabia lead 2 1 v Argentina with just over half an hour to go
 

Ian

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Argentina, flair and trickery but no substance.

Regarding that injury towards the end of the game, as much as I hate it, the players really do need to stop all this diving and cheating injury because the fella genuinely got flattended and they all played on thinking he was just time wasting. It's like the boy who cried wolf, you end up not knowing if it's a true injury or not.
 
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Argentina, flair and trickery but no substance.

Regarding that injury towards the end of the game, as much as I hate it, the players really do need to stop all this diving and cheating injury because the fella genuinely got flattended and they all played on thinking he was just time wasting. It's like the boy who cried wolf, you end up not knowing if it's a true injury or not.
Just emphasises what a good performance and result it was for England yesterday.
 

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That's bloody typical! I was made up to get Argentina in the sweepstake...
 

bigmart

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Poland and Mexico have done Argentina a favour with that result, very poor game and the prolific Lewandoski had a penalty saved
 

bigmart

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Japan come from behind to lead Germany 2 1 with 5 minutes to go.
 
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