Keith Hill (Bolton)
Member
- Joined
- 2 May 2021
- Messages
- 867
- Player
- Ged Brennan, Big Steve McNulty,
- Manager
- Mickey Mellon, Johnny King.
On the front of the Wirral Globe, asking for investment!
Simple answer, no.The big question is, are the non-football things expanding in terms of profits?
There was a £200k growth in revenue was there a corresponding wipe out in expenses?Simple answer, no.
Yes, there was a significant loss in the year.There was a £200k growth in revenue was there a corresponding wipe out in expenses?
They’re only reporting what’s in the strategic report. Can’t be anyone who doesn’t already know there’s a “need for investment if club are to grow”.On the front of the Wirral Globe, asking for investment!
You do realise that I could have worded that different.They’re only reporting what’s in the strategic report. Can’t be anyone who doesn’t already know there’s a “need for investment if club are to grow”.
Like what?There is A lot not in that report,
PJ deserves credit for holding out for a credible and caring owner during the lengthy period of time (years) he was trying to offload the club. Subsequently, though, there’s no indication that he’s given any financial support since 2018, when he wrote off the £2.18m of unsustainable debt he’d racked up during his ownership.The club has had significant losses all this century and without PJ, I would not like to think where we would be and possibly in the future.
The club certainly isn’t untenable and there’s no evidence to say it is. Outside investment is needed in order to grow, not to survive. If it arrives, MP can pat himself on the back. If, in your doomsday scenario, it doesn’t arrive, then the club should still be able to plod along, as it has done for most of its history, playing fourth division football in front of modest support, with little appeal to anyone credible to take it on and move it forward.The club is untenable and without outside investment, the debt will grow and the future will look bleak.
I think the £4.7 million is Palios' director's loan account, or at least some combination of that account and other balances. In 2017 the other creditor balance of £1.5 million was actually disclosed as a director's loan, but as the balance has grown in subsequent years the narrative has been removed, presumably to make the transactions more opaque.The big concern is the cashflow. Cashflow was positive by £316k but that is only after a £1.2m increase in "Other Creditors" during the year. Without that cashflow would have been negative £884k. I am at a loss as to what it is TBH.
I have always suspected it might be PJ putting money back in the form of soft loans - it can't be MP himself or the Indonesians as if it were either of them then it would have to be disclosed in the accounts since they are directors. Not sure if anyone knows anything more?
Be it him or something else it is very curious as the total amount of such creditors is now £4.7m which is a massive number given the total Balance Sheet is only £17.5m. Also to have gone up by £1m in one year when turnover is only £5.5m is very strange.
There are some, including with respect to related party disclosures. I assume that’s why the balances owed to the Paliosi at the year end aren’t included and shown as such in the related party note, since they’d otherwise need to be, under FRS 102 at least.There are no reduced disclosures in medium company accounts,
Interesting RLC - thanks for that. I had assumed that legal requirement went both ways so had assumed it couldn't be MP and so had convinced myself it was PJ rather than MP....I think the £4.7 million is Palios' director's loan account, or at least some combination of that account and other balances. In 2017 the other creditor balance of £1.5 million was actually disclosed as a director's loan, but as the balance has grown in subsequent years the narrative has been removed, presumably to make the transactions more opaque.
There is not actually a requirement to disclose loans from the directors to the company, just the other way round. However, as you say it is peculiar to have such a material balance in the accounts with no narrative explanation, and it could be argued that the reader's understanding is impeded by the failure to disclose.
I think O4A is right that is probably the reduced Companies House disclosures Palios has taken advantage of, rather than the Companies Act rules. The loan should still strictly be disclosed as a related party transaction under FRS102, but we have probably taken the filing exemption.Interesting RLC - thanks for that. I had assumed that legal requirement went both ways so had assumed it couldn't be MP and so had convinced myself it was PJ rather than MP....
I think the £4.7 million is Palios' director's loan account, or at least some combination of that account and other balances. In 2017 the other creditor balance of £1.5 million was actually disclosed as a director's loan, but as the balance has grown in subsequent years the narrative has been removed, presumably to make the transactions more opaque.
I agree that L2 is our most likely home at least until we get some new investment, however unlikely that might be at the present time. Indeed, it might be argued that this was the case historically until we got the PJ money and then enjoyed a period of success unparalleled in our history! We did have spells in the old Third Division but we were rarely in the promotion race from that Division. What we have sadly lost is the number of local derbies. While we now have Wrexham again, thanks to American money, games against Chester and Southport were always good to look forward to. Indeed, even before my time (!) there were games against New Brighton. I think they went in 51?This has made me take a look at what's happened to sides when I first watched Rovers about 12 years after BBTC. in the then named division 3, now League One.
Aston Villa, Brighton and Hove Albion and Fulham are now all top flight sides.
At the opposite end of the spectrum, Halifax, Chesterfield, Torquay Rochdale and Bury all dropped out of the FL
Bristol Rovers, Barnsley, Shrewsbury Town and Port Vale were L1 teams then and now.
I think the gap between L1 and L2 has expanded by comparison with the old divisions 3 and 4 and it would be a real achievement for Rovers to get back to L1 in the current climate. Think it's more likely we'd go the other way and while there is some consolation in BBTCs remarks, would prefer we stayed in the FL!