Rovers 1-0 Colchester

[SonkORLY?]

Wouldn't want Ronnie back under any circumstances. The football under him was woeful, stale, dire, boring. He only managed to keep us in contention because his teams could win at home against mediocre opposition. I think the squad we have now is better, assembled for far less money, it's just a shame that hasn't come through in the results (you can argue why....).

Sorry to be so harsh on a Rovers legend.

Slander.

We finished 7th under him in his final season with (I believe) the best home record in the league and the football under him was a lot more adventuorous than it is under Les. If Les has a better squad at his disposal then we should be performing a lot better than we are now. Granted Ronnie had a bigger budget back then than we have now, but it was still small and he worked minor miracles with it.

Under Ronnie we beat ****ing everyone at home. As most fans only go to the home games, that counts for a hell of a lot.

 

[Tartantranmere64]

If you read my posting, I deliberately wrote that I wasn't comparing Ronnie with Les. I was comparing the two squads of players. The current squad is better in my opinion.

Yes we finished 7th in Ronnie's last season and I saw us beat almost everyone at home, but much of the time the football was uninspiring, with only a couple of notable exceptions (Leicester City for one). A view shared by many home fans as gates fell away badly under his management.

Away from home we were a disaster most of the time.

 

[Sparky]

Sonkorly is spot on.

Its results that matter - and am sure Ronnies ratio of points to games will be far better than what Les has done so far.

I dont think football under Les has been particularly attractive. Yes we have had some good wins etc but I'll never forget Wycombe last season at home and more recently Yeovil and Bristol Rovers.

The fact remains that the quality of football played is I reckon secondary in most fans minds to actually winning games.

Ronnie was seconds from the play offs. We are currently 3 pts from the bottom 4. Results dont lie.

 

[SonkORLY?]

I was comparing the two squads of players. The current squad is better in my opinion.

That reflects badly on Les and well on Ronnie, surely?

A younger Goodison alongside Ben Chorley, two Championship quality fullbacks in Shotton and Andy Taylor, Kay and Jenno in the middle, the rise and fall of Charlie Barnett, Danny Coyne diving around like a dolphin without ever giving the impression he had any command of his area whatsoever, Bas Savage with his red/blue haircut and red boots...and, of course, the mighty Eddy Sonko on the right wing! Loved that team. Brilliant season, right down to the wire.

3 points is 3 points, but to the fans, home results matter a lot more than away results.

 

[Ian]

the football under him was a lot more adventuorous than it is under Les

I disagree. There were some quite dire games under Ronnie, in fact quite a lot of them were very poor indeed. I certainly wouldn't use the word 'adventurous'. The football hasn't changed that much at all. Long ball nonsense.

But, it is a results business:

Ronnie Moore
Games: 158
Won: 65 (41%)
Drawn: 38
Lost: 55 (35%)

Les Parry
Games: 83
Won: 27 (32%)
Drawn: 21
Lost: 35 (42%)

Under Les, we are probably a better away side but a poorer home one. Sigh...

 

[SonkORLY?]

4-4-2, 2 strikers, 2 wingers, attacking fullbacks, won everything at home, finished 7th.

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

I agree with Sonko that the football under Ronnie was more entertaining than it has generally been under Les. Although it sounds contradictory, under Moore we played a direct game how it 'should be played', getting width into the side and whipping plenty of the balls into the box, rather than simply hacking it aimlessly forward as we have done at times this season.

The strength of our home record under Ronnie also counts for a lot, as although gates fell under his management, we rarely saw a sub-5,000 crowd whereas that is now the norm under Les.

Having said all that, to speculate at this stage is a touch harsh on Les: I am not a fan of the way we play under him, but he is at least keeping our heads above water at present, which is the job he was asked to do at the start of the season.

 

[DIW]

Wouldn't want Ronnie back under any circumstances. The football under him was woeful, stale, dire, boring. He only managed to keep us in contention because his teams could win at home against mediocre opposition. I think the squad we have now is better, assembled for far less money, it's just a shame that hasn't come through in the results (you can argue why....).

Sorry to be so harsh on a Rovers legend.

What the **** are you talking about?

 

[Boz]

While I think it was the wrong decision to sack Ronnie after he took us so close to the play-offs, equally it wouldn't be a good move to have him return now imo. However, he certainly wasn't all good, remember a central midfield pairing of Mullin and McLaren in his first season and a reluctance to blood youngsters. My guess is that Dale wouldn't have seen much first team in action with Ronnie in charge.

 

[Tartantranmere64]

What the **** are you talking about?

That's an insightful reply!

Anyway, glad I opened this can of worms, it's quite interesting to see people's perceptions of the past.

Ronnie's third season was his most successful - the home form from October onwards was exceptional and we were 90 seconds from the play-offs. No denying that.

But, over his three year's stewardship gates fell, even despite this charge towards the play-offs. Why? The football was uninspiring. Apart from the Leicester game that season, I cannot think of one game I came back from feeling enthused by what I watched. Functional, dull. Two wingers? Nah, two wide men who couldn't beat anyone or cross the ball. And, I may say, I worshipped Bas Savage.

Results don't lie? Neither did the crowds then....

 

[SonkORLY?]

It was good, direct football. But moving on from that.

Truth be told I'd argue the steady decline in crowds are more of a knock on effect from relegation under Aldo, more abject failure under Watson, Mathias' honeymoon period running out quickly and Brian Little blowing our best opportunity at promotion when the money was (relatively) flowing, ending in us barely surviving the drop...6 years of severe underachievement that we may not ever recover from.

Anyway, glad I opened this can of worms, it's quite interesting to see people's perceptions of the past.

As I recall, Ronnie took over Little's relegation-battling rabble, cut out all the deadwood and a few years later had us finishing 7th on a smaller budget than he started with. We progressed in the league, had a superb home record, and crowds still fell. What more do you want the man to do? It's difficult to justify any criticism of the job he did.

 

[Tartantranmere64]

It was good, direct football. But moving on from that.

Truth be told I'd argue the steady decline in crowds are more of a knock on effect from relegation under Aldo, more abject failure under Watson, Mathias' honeymoon period running out quickly and Brian Little blowing our best opportunity at promotion when the money was (relatively) flowing, ending in us barely surviving the drop...6 years of severe underachievement that we may not ever recover from.



As I recall, Ronnie took over Little's relegation-battling rabble, cut out all the deadwood and a few years later had us finishing 7th on a smaller budget than he started with. We progressed in the league, had a superb home record, and crowds still fell. What more do you want the man to do? It's difficult to justify any criticism of the job he did.

Strange how my original comments have been taken and twisted. I never criticised the job Ronnie did. I said the football was dull, predictable and sterile and it contributed significantly to the long-term decline in crowds prepared to watch Rovers. I can justify those comments all day long. I said at the time Ronnie deserved the freedom of the Borough for getting us to 7th on the resources he had. I didn't say that the football was watchable. It wasn't. It was poor fare. I don't want him back as manager. If fans chant his name at Oldham (that would be an irony - wonder if the Latics fans will join in?) - that's their right. I won't join in though.

 

[Sparky]

Yeah whether people think Ronnie did good or bad - singing his name is totally disrespectful to Les.

Les isnt perfect but is doing a half decent job at the moment and God knows what he would think if the fans sing Ronnies name.

I personally think Ronnie is a better manager but fans singing Ronnies name will be out of order. Maybe if we were bottom of the league but we aint.

Will be interesting from any reports next week whether it actually happens - is the game on Sky bTW ?

 

[SonkORLY?]

Will be interesting from any reports next week whether it actually happens - is the game on Sky bTW ?

Yeah it is, I'm quite excited

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

That's an insightful reply!
Apart from the Leicester game that season, I cannot think of one game I came back from feeling enthused by what I watched.

I think the 4-1 thrashing of Carlisle, 3-1 thumping of Huddersfield and 2-0 win over Scunthorpe that season were all very entertaining. The performances away at Oldham and Leeds (although we lost) were also great in high pressure matches.

Anyway, I will still insist that we played better, more entertaining football under Ronie than we do now. Although I have infinitely more respect for Les than John Barnes, the football at PP in the last two seasons has, for different reasons, been the worst I have seen since the mid eighties.

I also think it is inaccurate to single Moore out for falling attendances in that period, even if that was Johnson's lame excuse for his sacking. As has been pointed out, gates have pretty much been on the decline ever since 2001.

What is noticeable is that this season even some of our hardcore has drifted away: this season's average is our worst for 22 years, since the old fourth division days, and the first season since Kingy's arrival that we have regularly got gates under 5,000.

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

My guess is that Dale wouldn't have seen much first team in action with Ronnie in charge.

Probably a fair comment.

 

[SonkORLY?]

We probably wouldn't be 3 points from relegation either...actually, we might. Les has done a good job in fairness.

Who did Ronnie not bring through? Other than Mike Jones. Can't really think. Curran got a fair run-out, and Stevie Jenno made the step-up.

 

[Boz]

Who did Ronnie not bring through? Other than Mike Jones. Can't really think. Curran got a fair run-out, and Stevie Jenno made the step-up.

I tend to agree that it looks like there are few who have been released by Rovers and made a go of it elsewhere. However, my view is that you only really get the idea of how good a youngster is by playing them in a competitive fixture. After his breakthrough, Curran was played for most of the next season as a time-wasting 88th minute substitution. Jennings only really got a chance when Mullin was injured. I remember a turgid, meaningless, game at Huddersfield near the end of Ronnie's second season, we lost 1-0 with Gornell and Mike Jones on the bench. Ideal opportunity to give them some game-time wasted and typical of his conservative approach to youngsters.

 

[roverstillidie]

. Curran got a fair run-out, .

Moore ruined Curran by bringing him on for the last 2 minutes of every game - it's what made him lose his goalscoring knack.

 

[SonkORLY?]

I tend to agree that it looks like there are few who have been released by Rovers and made a go of it elsewhere. However, my view is that you only really get the idea of how good a youngster is by playing them in a competitive fixture. After his breakthrough, Curran was played for most of the next season as a time-wasting 88th minute substitution. Jennings only really got a chance when Mullin was injured. I remember a turgid, meaningless, game at Huddersfield near the end of Ronnie's second season, we lost 1-0 with Gornell and Mike Jones on the bench. Ideal opportunity to give them some game-time wasted and typical of his conservative approach to youngsters.

All I heard for years was Tranmere supporters moaning about Curran and Gornell not playing, then when Les brought both through properly, we couldn't wait to get rid of them. I think fans always have rose-tinted views of their own young players which are often based on nothing, whereas the managers and coaching staff work with them every day and see them play. Steve Jennings was a first team regular in 2007-2008 and 2008-2009, making 100 appearences under Ronnie in those two seasons. Up until then he was a bit-part player, under previous managers too.

Mike Jones slipped through the net. It's a shame, and it was Ronnie's fault. But there still isn't that much basis for the argument that Ronnie stifled our young players IMO. The current crop coming through under Les is simply more talented.