Rovers v Gateshead

[bring back the cowshed!]

When we haven't even got the bragging rights on the Wirral, we have got problems!

 

[iandavid59]

Very poor performance from Rovers last night ok there were excuses as they were missing 7 first team regulars but team selection was poor in my opinion I would have played 433 and put Vaughan at right back Duggan in the middle and played Almond and Stephenson up top with Cook. The young lad Jones had a nightmare and everyone could see the lads confidence going with every miscontrolled pass and poor touch surely a better manager would for the lads own sake to take him off. Almond looked lost on the wing and surely he needs to play in the middle. Kirby was poor as well. Sutton didnt impress either his distribution is awful. Rovers best player for me by a country mile was Steve McNulty dominant in the air and assured on the ground and always giving encouragement to the younger players.

A new Manager needs to be brought in asap so to give him a chance of turning things round before its too late.

 

[Sparky]

At one point last night I thought McNulty was going to get a bit frustrated and sent off. Cook also put in a strong tackle that won the ball but some refs would have blown up

As for the manager, its a tough one. You can't blame Palios for taking his time given he's already sacked Edwards, Adams & Brabin. He doesn't want to get it wrong again but as has been said, the longer we leave it the more chance we'll be in mid table.

 

[Ian]

I wonder if any potential managers were watching last night? I wonder if any potential managers have backed off this morning? lol

Going to be a very tough job getting this ship in order.

 

[Boz]

On reflection, Carden didn't make any tactical changes, the subs were like for like, Brabin-style. Think it could have been better going 433, replacing Jones with Stephenson and moving Duggan into midfield.

 

[Ian]

PC did say he would be asking GB for his advice so maybe he called him before the game!

 

[bigmart]

One of the worst performances I have witnessed in my many years watching rovers, we sunk to a new low last night and got what we deserved against a team who had been struggling badly and had failed to score for a long time.

Almond & Kirby were dreadful and should have been taken off at half time at the latest, jones although only a young lad was just as bad he has pace but cannot control the ball and we would be better off giving one of our young lads ago.

We badly need a manager in and quickly as our chances of winning the league are all but go and it is going to be a battle to get into the play offs as it is

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

In fairness to Carden, an experienced manager would have struggled with the players he had at his disposal last night. We did not have the personnel available to get a result and the current crop of injuries and suspensions are a bit of a freak. The match reminded me of a lot of games under Parry and Moore where a group of loanees were thrown together, with predictable results. And at least Carden admitted the display was 'inept' in contrast to the blather we used to get from Brabin.

I am not for a second suggesting he should be our manager, just that people need to cut him a bit of slack. I also think it is more important for Palios to choose the right man, rather than rushing an appointment, which could be much more damaging in the long term.

 

[Ian]

It's a bit of a lottery really I think, especially at this level as we won't have world class managers knocking on the door. Not that I'm saying I want an appointment tomorrow but time is not the miracle cure. We could be waiting 3 months to appoint and he could be as useless as the last half dozen managers. I do hope it's sooner rather than later as we need to start picking up points and getting the team scoring goals.

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

https://planetprentonia.com/2016/10/05/notes-from-the-abyss/

Excellent article by Ryan Ferguson about our current situation. I am not sure he comes up with many solutions to our problems, but he expresses well the frustration a lot of us feel.

 

[Boz]

In fairness to Carden, an experienced manager would have struggled with the players he had at his disposal last night. We did not have the personnel available to get a result and the current crop of injuries and suspensions are a bit of a freak. The match reminded me of a lot of games under Parry and Moore where a group of loanees were thrown together, with predictable results. And at least Carden admitted the display was 'inept' in contrast to the blather we used to get from Brabin.

I am not for a second suggesting he should be our manager, just that people need to cut him a bit of slack. I also think it is more important for Palios to choose the right man, rather than rushing an appointment, which could be much more damaging in the long term.

With the players at our disposal, we should still have been able to get a result against a Gateshead side in woeful form themselves. As you highlighted in an earlier post, it was odd of Carden to leave more experienced players like Vaughan and Stephenson on the bench (and of the loanees Tollitt, the one with most experience). Tactically, it was Brabin-lite from Carden, he had a third sub to use, but refused to change things despite the fact it his first two changes, while an improvement, had no great impact. Worrying rumours about whether Norwood was really injured too. Let's see if the interim manager can do better at the weekend.

It is a difficult position for the Palioi. Wait for another month or two before appointing and on current form it's play-offs at best. Making the wrong appointment could make us another Wrexham or Chester, stuck down here for the foreseable.

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

Listening to Carden's comments about Stephenson after the game, it was odd to hear him publicly criticising the player. Regardless of how much Stephenson is 'showing on the training ground' he should start ahead of the hapless Jones on Saturday if Norwood is unavailable. Obviously it is a major concern if there is any truth to the Norwood rumours, and I too find the treatment of Vaughan bizarre.

I am not defending Carden, but simply stating that we have a lot of players missing at the moment.

 

[bring back the cowshed!]

https://planetprentonia.com/2016/10/05/notes-from-the-abyss/

Excellent article by Ryan Ferguson about our current situation. I am not sure he comes up with many solutions to our problems, but he expresses well the frustration a lot of us feel.

I'm a big fan of Planet Prentonia with its quality journalism about a subject near and dear. However, despite its eloquence, this one reads more like a rant from an exasperated supporter who has just got home from the Gateshead match. Yes, we've only been sliding down since 2001 as investment has been starved. When the Palioses took over, we were c**p on the field and no better off it. They've tried hard to tackle both problems at once. Without off the field income, we couldn't survive - even if we had stayed in the EFL. They deserve massive praise for the ingenuity, passion and commitment in driving forward some amazing initiatives. This has given us a degree of sustainable financial stability unseen since before PJ bought Everton.

As RLC points out, Ryan doesn't even offer a hint of how he would move things forward on the playing side. As many of us recognise, we have at last tried to become a club which does not rely on loanees and it's only the recent injury/suspension crisis that's resulted in the influx of temporary players. The fact they are young is probably due to the fact that suitable older players are not available. I don't think we can blame MP, GB or PC for bringing in poor players. How they line up and the use of our young pros is another issue, but our recruitment strategy is sound.

For me, the final piece in the jigsaw is getting an effective manager. History tells us this is difficult. Since the war, only two managers have led successful promotion campaigns - Dave Russell and Johnny King. Apart from them, only John Aldridge gave us much to cheer about, although only in the cups. As far as I can remember, every other manager but those three was sacked. With the exception of Ronnie Moore, I don't remember any of them getting another managerial post in the EFL. It didn't matter if they were starting out (Frank Worthington, Dave Watson, Les Parry, Rob Edwards) or were experienced and "on their way down" (Brian Little, Micky Adams), their time at Tranmere was so bad it effectively ended their career.

Although it's difficult, a lot of other clubs seem to get the occasional good manager. Unlike the other managers mentioned, Dave Russell and Johnny King were experienced and successful managers "on the way up" before they joined Rovers. I'd like to see us find a youngish man who's had some success in this league. We missed out on Danny Cowley of Braintree and look at Lincoln City today. Being a manager is a difficult and stressful job, so you need someone with a bit of experience, some success and a lot of passion, energy and ambition. That means someone who wants to better himself and regards Rovers as a challenge.

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

While I agree that financially we were heading for oblivion before palios arrived, I dont entirely agree with bbtc. I think ferguson is right to emphasise that there is an imbalance at the moment between the pr offensive regarding the suites, futsal and the rest and what is happening on the pitch. The off the field stuff is essential and positive but at times we could do with hearing less about it, particularly when the team is performing so poorly: we are ultimately a football club, not an events company or a social enterprise. At times it seems easier for the paliosi to focus on the off the field stuff as it is what they find easy, whereas perhaps more of their time should be spent learning the football side, which they have struggled with. While we have many good players, recruitment has not been entirely successful. For example, the lack of midfield creativity is a problem which has still not been properly addressed.

 

[bring back the cowshed!]

It's very strange being a Rovers fan at the moment. For the past few weeks we have been cautiously optimistic and manically depressed, changing from one to the other after every couple of games. It was a bit like that last season as we were so erratic. I agree we must give PC a bit of slack. Woking was a good result. Dag & Red would have been more than acceptable, even with 11 men. So, I hope he learns from the Gateshead game that you can't assume that keeping largely the same team and formation will produce the same performance. Even I managed to predict the team PC fielded on Tuesday (apart from Norwood). There were surely too many youngsters and not enough leaders, even though McNulty finally got the captain's armband. Surely Vaughan and Stephenson should have played. And having got the subs right on Saturday, PC seemed not to know what to do on Tuesday.

 

[Ian]

The off the field stuff is essential and positive but at times we could do with hearing less about it, particularly when the team is performing so poorly: we are ultimately a football club, not an events company or a social enterprise.

It's interesting you say that because quite a few supporters are now getting a bit sick and tired of hearing/seeing all the off the field stuff. I do think they are doing a great job in this regard but it would be refreshing if we could have some stability on the pitch too! We come to watch the football..

 

[drwhoman]

I am not surprised PC did not know what to do. How many of the team will he have actually worked with closely for any length of time? Half the team maybe? He is in an invidious position. He does not know his future and is trying to do his best with limited resources. I am not making excuses for him but merely observing. As far as Mark P is concerned, he is an ex player and so he will not be completely unaware of what needs to go on with the team. The problem is he has to delegate to someone and let them get on with it. The trick is finding the right person. He does not need the completely inexperienced or the 'overexperienced' like Adams or perhaps Brabin. Incidentally, regarding former Managers, no one can forget the Barnes/McAteer combo! That was probably the worst of the lot!

 

[Boz]

A few things to address here;

It doesn't seem particularly helpful of PC to make negative comment about players, especially younger ones like Stephenson. Though as a fan it's quite illuminating and I'd like to hear him complete the statement "I don't pick Lee Vaughan because..."

While recognising that the off-field areas at the club have improved beyond recognition and are invaluable in sustaining our future, there must be a recognition by the Palioi that these do not compensate in any way for the on-field failings. There also needs to be much better communication about things footballing too; little in the way of progess reports on injured players, loan signings are often reported elsewhere as examples. I can understand keeping Norwood's injury, if it was that, quiet, but not the blackout on how Mekki/Jennings C are recovering.

Loanees are in part a consequence of Brabin's small squad strategy. However, there is the question of who exactly is responsible for player recruitment. Ethan Jones, loan until January didn't fill an obvious need as Cook, Norwood, Jennings C, Stephenson and Kirby all can play in a forward role and on what we've seen so far, he's no improvement. Or Omatola/Illesamni could be recalled from their loans. I'd also like to know why Louis Almond, primarily a striker, who can play wide was signed permanently, see above for at least four, who can do similar. Meanwhile as RLC points out, the lack of creative midfield options hasn't been fully addressed, likewise left-back cover. Martin Riley, who we'll be up against at the weekend made a remark about the Director of Football being responsible for him not signing a new deal. We didn't have a DOF, but can't help wonder who the remarks were aimed at.

Duggan shows potential in terms of on-field leaders, but a lot of the senior pros do not.

We were apparently interested in the Cowleys over the summer, but didn't take things further, our choice rather than them consciously picking Lincoln over us. Dave Challinor, another in the up and coming category apparently prefers to stay at Fylde. Given their relative strong finacial position, arguably he should have done better. Who else falls into that category and is worth a punt on is hard to say, if that's the type of manager the Palioi are now looking for.

 

[frenchrover]

Well according to the Echo Mickey Mellon is our new Manager with Mike Jackson as his number 2.....good appointment methinks.