Sunderland v Rovers

[bring back the cowshed!]

I wasn't there and only followed it on BBC Livetext, but the comments above are no surprise. They had 6 shots on target and scored from 5. We failed with all of our three. As somebody said earlier, we needed to frustrate them and get the crowd against them. Surely the tried and tested three centre-backs should have been the system. I am sure Danns and the half-fit Perkins worked their socks off, but have we ever had such an elderly central midfield. Not their fault.

We will survive if morale can be maintained and most of the injured return soon. Then some of the extra investment can be spent in January. Look what happened after the January window last year. All we need is to finish in 20th place or above.

Above all, let's not start blaming anyone for the predicament we are in. It's not Mark's or Micky's or the players' fault. They are all trying their best under difficult circumstances.

 

[ADD]

On reflection and a night's sleep - we huffed and puffed a bit in the first 20 minutes but our defending was simply laughable. The fifth was a complete joke. A ball into the edge of the 6 yard box (who would have thought that might happen?!!) and we contrived to give the lad 5 yards of space - unreal. 4th was not much better and nor was the second - if we have a wall then Davies needs not to stand behind it but in the space - he didn't move... the disallowed comedy goal looked fine to me also!
MM I agree struck, for the first time this season, a very different tone and was clearly embarrassed - gone was all the guff about they were all brought here to play first team football and instead comments about if these are not good enough then we need to look at changing the squad.
After all he has CBJ a left back on the bench yet he is playing Rides who most people on here say is a liability so what does that suggest he thinks of CBJ ?
Then we have Nelson again on the bench - does he really think that Ray is better than him? Finally Wilson also on the bench. I appreciate we have injuries in midfield especially but aside from probably Ellis that was supposedly MM's first choice defence and the defending was simply unacceptable.
All in all last night showed we are in desperate trouble camouflaged somewhat by our result at Coventry as after all if we hadn't got lucky in being able to play Bolton's youth team we would likely be third from bottom and 3 points adrift already. I appreciate the difference in finances to Sunderland, Ipswich etc. is massive but not all the teams above us will have more money than us and I am struggling right now to identify 3 teams who will finish below us.

 

[Ian]

On reflection and a night's sleep - we huffed and puffed a bit in the first 20 minutes but our defending was simply laughable.

Agreed. We did start quite brightly and Mullin had a few decent runs towards their goal but once Sunderland started to play and attack our goal, the defence crumbled. Micky's summing up of the defence: awful.

I hope we are able to bring in some more quality in Jan, nevertheless, it will be a tough season. Can we get more out of the current players or are most of them treading water?

 

[ONIGP]

I didn't see last night's match but have seen enough this season to suggest that without an injury ravaged squad we are capable of survival. We may have had close to our best back 4 out last night but we didn't have anything like our best 6 in front of them or the ability to do that much in terms of a varied formation. We were missing at least 3 key players last night in Ferrier, Potter and Banks who are all capable of improving the team, while we are also playing a few who aren't perhaps fully fit. I'm not trying to make excuses for MM but he certainly has plenty at his disposal should he choose to use them. It would be great if we could bring in a bit more quality in January and taking some sort of unbudgeted financial risk (within reason) may well be justified.

A 5-0 drubbing at Sunderland isn't a shock (new manager, resources, injuries, etc etc) and shouldn't define our season even if it was a below-par performance. MM needs to earn his salt now and ensure that the same players who capitulated last night show the never-say-die attitude and level of performance that they are capable of. We may well lose at home to Doncaster on Saturday but providing we show some spirit and don't capitulate THAT shouldn't define our season either.

 

[Sparky]

I think last night highlights at times mickeys less than successful recruitment. Ray has hardly impressed apart from the Coventry game.

none of the double barreled names CBT, CBJ, RHM have imposed themselves. Ponticelli has been a disaster given it was a 6 month loan. Others like Perkins and Danns had good seasons in L2 last season but I’m not convinced they are good enough for L1. Mullin hasn’t really worked either

but in fairness to Micky he is shopping in the football equivalent of B+M bargains and loan players are always a risk.

as BBTC even if we stay up on goal difference that will be a successful season. And we build from there. The worry is that another hefty defeat this Saturday, which isn’t impossible, could crush the confidence with Mk Dons away the week after

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

I think last night highlights at times mickeys less than successful recruitment. Ray has hardly impressed apart from the Coventry game.

none of the double barreled names CBT, CBJ, RHM have imposed themselves. Ponticelli has been a disaster given it was a 6 month loan. Others like Perkins and Danns had good seasons in L2 last season but I’m not convinced they are good enough for L1. Mullin hasn’t really worked either

but in fairness to Micky he is shopping in the football equivalent of B+M bargains and loan players are always a risk.

as BBTC even if we stay up on goal difference that will be a successful season. And we build from there. The worry is that another hefty defeat this Saturday, which isn’t impossible, could crush the confidence with Mk Dons away the week after

I think the management team know who the capable players are at this level, but we are not simply not able to recruit them. We were linked with Peter Clarke, Lang, Maynard, Mayor, Woodburn and countless others over the summer and did not sign any of them. It is probably reasonable to assume the players we did sign were second or third choices at best. You also have to remember that the majority of the squad were recruited to play League Two or even National League football, and were not necessarily poor signings at that level, even if they have struggled to adjust to a higher one.

I think the quality of the squad reflects our financial circumstances, not the judgement of the manager. When we did have a bit of money to spend last January, the recruitment was excellent and won us promotion. Even in the summer of 2018, when again we were strapped financially, the recruitment was decent.

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

not all the teams above us will have more money than us

There are probably only one or two who don't.

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

yes I got that impression. Making the point that can some of these players can no longer be improved. You think of ridehalgh who hasn’t impressed overall this season and Jennings. Connors game summed up by a late dwelling on the ball and being disposed and giving a free kick away - similar to his second yellow card And sending off recently.
Since Wembley I’ve always preferred manny and Nelson. Ray started the season and didn’t impress but was excellent against Coventry. Arguably after last night, Sid deserved a chance

We all see the game differently, but I think Ridehalgh has been solid for the last few weeks and was not one of our worst players last night, although he was probably culpable for the first goal.

I thought Jennings also had one of his better games, in that he was tidy with the ball and did not continuously turn possession over. However, he offered very little creativity. So far I don't think he has looked clever or creative enough to play in the number ten role at this level (I know he was out wide last night), which is a problem because he can't really play as an out-and-out centre forward either.

 

[bigmart]

A very bad night and by the sounds of it an awful performance.

The number of injuries have had an effect, but ONIGP says we were missing 3 key men in Potter, Banks & Ferrier. However, Ferrier for all his potential hardly scored at this level last season, Banks although decent is not really proven at this level, although Potter is a miss when he doesn't play.

The alarming thing for me is since the Peterborough game when we played really well with some really good passing, we have been poor and our passing has been very poor.

We have to get to January without being cut adrift and hope we can strengthen then although I think it will be harder this time

 

[Boz]

Have caught up with the highlights. Apart from the third goal, where a lucky deflection helped Sunderland initially, poor defending was a feature.

While I have some sympathy for Micky regarding budget constraints, his preference for Ray over Nelson is baffling. Nelson and Monthe had developed an understanding at the end of last season and while Sid can be fairly raw at times, I have seen nothing from Ray to justify his preferential treatment by the manager. I agree with RLC regarding Ridehalgh, who's probably better defensively than Borthwick-Jackson.

We haven't been given much information about injury progress, or I've missed them. How close is Ferrier to a return? Any updates on Gilmour's injury? Is McCullough still training with us and how close is he to match fitness?

 

[bring back the cowshed!]

We haven't been given much information about injury progress, or I've missed them. How close is Ferrier to a return? Any updates on Gilmour's injury? Is McCullough still training with us and how close is he to match fitness?

Yes, the club do seem to be a bit reticent in giving us updates. If we are lucky, we get an estimate shortly after the injury has occurred. Then, we tend to hear nothing until the player is almost ready to return to action.

 

[Sparky]

Last thing on Gilmour was that he was going for a scan. That was before the Southend game. I totally forgot about McCullough. Could have done with him last night

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

Prior to last night Ray had not been that bad, but I think he, Monthe and Nelson might all start in a back three on Saturday.

 

[Mungy's Hairdresser]

Any word on Ishmael too? Is he done? I know he’s only on a six month contract & I didn’t see any pre-season games but he seemed to be a standout player judging by reports. Not sure if any of you have already seen this on twitter... or indeed if the link will work (he hopes) but this makes incredible reading if apparently true in terms of financial gulf between us & Sunderland!

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

The wage figures quoted in that Tweet actually include all of our non-playing staff as well, so the actual playing budget will be lower still.

 

[Mungy's Hairdresser]

Indeed, that is referred to in the thread by the producer.

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

In better news, Accrington were tonked 4-0 at Peterborough tonight.

Even if we lose at the weekend we can't slip into the bottom three, as Wimbledon don't play.

 

[Sparky]

Don’t think we should be holding out much hope for Miller. In his brief TRFC career he’s done well but he’s such a big fella it’ll take him ages to get match fit. We do need a physical presence in the box though. On Tuesday we put decent crosses and corners in but rarely troubled their keeper. Oh for an Andy cook.

we’ve got all these attacking players: mullin, Payne, ponticelli, CJ, RHM, CBT - but none have a real aerial presence/

 

[ONIGP]

Don’t think we should be holding out much hope for Miller. In his brief TRFC career he’s done well but he’s such a big fella it’ll take him ages to get match fit. We do need a physical presence in the box though. On Tuesday we put decent crosses and corners in but rarely troubled their keeper. Oh for an Andy cook.

we’ve got all these attacking players: mullin, Payne, ponticelli, CJ, RHM, CBT - but none have a real aerial presence/

The sooner we get Ferrier back the better. Apart from being a good player he is 6'1" and decent in the air.

 

[ADD]

Last thing on Gilmour was that he was going for a scan. That was before the Southend game. I totally forgot about McCullough. Could have done with him last night

McCullough is now back out on the grass according to MM. When asked he said we may discuss with him once he is fit... always assuming he is interested in signing..