EFL Trophy Pizza Cup Rovers v Leeds U21

drwhoman

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Begs the question how much input mm had into some of the signings
Something has clearly gone wrong with Maguire. He was well regarded at Liverpool if not seen as a future first team player (few are!).it might be that he does not react well to being shouted at. Some players benefit more from a softer approach. Still, who knows!
 

Ian

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Completely agree bigmart. I wonder if he really wants to be here..
 

Boz

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I wonder if Mark Palios was influential in the Glatzel signing; being very keen to put forward the special relationship with Liverpool despite history showing Red Scouse doing little to help us recently aside from the pre-season friendly which helps with the finances.

Agree that Glatzel has been disappointing so far, though perhaps too early to write him off completely.
 
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Something has clearly gone wrong with Maguire. He was well regarded at Liverpool if not seen as a future first team player (few are!).it might be that he does not react well to being shouted at. Some players benefit more from a softer approach. Still, who knows!
It is interesting that Maguire and Glatzel both came through a so called 'elite' academy at Liverpool which is dysfunctional as far as I am concerned. They teach the kind of technical skills you need in the Champions League to average players that will never play at that level, but leave them ill equipped to deal with the mental and physical challenges of lower division football, which is where the vast majority will end up.

So you end up with Maguire, who looks OK going forward but has no defensive instinct at all, and Glatzel who can do a fancy flick on the halfway line but does not know how to compete with a centre half, and does not seem to know how to get a shot away. The whole EPP academy system needs to be exploded, and those players should filter down to the lower divisions and non league football and compete for an existence as they did in the past. The best ones will rise to the top and make the lower division clubs some money in the process.

I think some of the comments above regarding Glatzel are harsh, not because he is playing well but because of his circumstances. I think he is doing his best, but he has not been prepared for the rigours of professional football by the coaching set up at Liverpool.
 
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I wonder if Mark Palios was influential in the Glatzel signing; being very keen to put forward the special relationship with Liverpool despite history showing Red Scouse doing little to help us recently aside from the pre-season friendly which helps with the finances.

Agree that Glatzel has been disappointing so far, though perhaps too early to write him off completely.
Clubs release names of players who can be loaned to other clubs, this list is passed around to all clubs. And it also involves the players agent. There are many reasons why players are loaned. Such as getting games, post injury, experience, confidence, fitness and of course favours between clubs.
It is a cheap and nasty way to build the squad. It is not often that a loanee is given the chance to play for his home club. There have been a few through the league that have been given a contract after the loan period. Most are often released and struggle to get a league club. Since Bosman, the loan system is regulated too much. The restrictions on some youngsters are difficult for managers. The worst one is, if the loanees don't play, the club he is loaned to, have to pay the players wages. You would think that the loanees would get paid by the club they are loaned to. And added to that, a loanee could be restricted to playing a certain amount of time
 

drwhoman

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It is interesting that Maguire and Glatzel both came through a so called 'elite' academy at Liverpool which is dysfunctional as far as I am concerned. They teach the kind of technical skills you need in the Champions League to average players that will never play at that level, but leave them ill equipped to deal with the mental and physical challenges of lower division football, which is where the vast majority will end up.

So you end up with Maguire, who looks OK going forward but has no defensive instinct at all, and Glatzel who can do a fancy flick on the halfway line but does not know how to compete with a centre half, and does not seem to know how to get a shot away. The whole EPP academy system needs to be exploded, and those players should filter down to the lower divisions and non league football and compete for an existence as they did in the past. The best ones will rise to the top and make the lower division clubs some money in the process.

I think some of the comments above regarding Glatzel are harsh, not because he is playing well but because of his circumstances. I think he is doing his best, but he has not been prepared for the rigours of professional football by the coaching set up at Liverpool.
I tend to agree with most of your comments RLC this but from a premier league club’s perspective it does allow them to ‘hoard’ decent kids who might just make it to the top. It also keeps people in jobs! These comments having been made, many of the best recent Liverpool talents actually started somewhere else. Sterling, Elliott and now Gordon were all brought in at around 16. TAA and Curtis Jones are rare in being home grown.Does this justify the whole system though is your key point.
 

drwhoman

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I tend to agree with most of your comments RLC this but from a premier league club’s perspective it does allow them to ‘hoard’ decent kids who might just make it to the top. It also keeps people in jobs! These comments having been made, many of the best recent Liverpool talents actually started somewhere else. Sterling, Elliott and now Gordon were all brought in at around 16. TAA and Curtis Jones are rare in being home grown.Does this justify the whole system though is your key point.
The idea of an ‘ Academy’ might also impact on player expectations although you would hope that they would understand that for most it simply will not happen. Fifty years ago, Liverpool had a reserve team plus A and B teams almost all of whom were local and there was usually a job for them at the docks, car factories or whatever if did not work out. Is the current system fairer to young players? I suspect that they get an inkling as to how they are viewed by who they get loaned to. I suspect that Clarkson is more highly regarded than Glatzel by going to the Championship on loan.
 

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Agree that some views I’ve seen about glatzel, not all on this forum, are harsh.

He is a centre forward - end of story. Since he’s been with us the vast majority of his appearances have been on the left. To a young lad I can imagine his confidence has been affected by this. Yes he has struggled with the physical aspect of the football league but we’ve hardly been prolific this season and he’s not been given a run of games down the middle. Its turning into a waste of a signing
 
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The EEEP System, which was brought in about ten years ago, is responsible for the smaller clubs in the league would be struggling from the lack of quality, because one of the biggest changes is to how much a youngster is worth. Since the introduction, the elite premier league clubs can pick and choose who they want in their academies. They only have to pay a nominal fee, instead of a sizeable lump sum.
Some academy youngsters are on really good wages. And are well and truly pampered!
The elite of the elite get to play in the national squad. And train with the group at St George's park. This is one of the reasons why England age groups have done so well in international comps.
The elite of clubs have changed over time and more British talent are in the academies.
I can remember watching a game, where the only British player was a midfielder.
The number of professional clubs that have an academy is falling, the amount of money for an academy has dropped considerably from the FA. And in real terms, would have to spend money which they could ill afford.
 

ADD

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Glatzel seems to have had a shocker last night accirding to many. I didn't watch but I simply don't follow the amount of negativity. I agree with Sparky he clearly has struggled being played out of position but he shows lovely flashes of class way above most L2 players. That said if he isn't going to play through the middle and Nevitt is preferred then we should maybe look to try and end the deal early.
 
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The problem I have with Glatzel playing through the middle is that when he does get into central areas he seems completely lost, hesitant and with no conviction in his finishing. That was true as early as the Oldham cup game, not just recent matches. He does not look like a natural centre forward to me, and I would guess most of his games at Luverpool were in a fluid front three, which is similar to how he has been used here.

If anything, he looks more like a creative number ten than a finisher.
 
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Boz

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I think a shocker is too harsh. Glatzel didn’t go missing last night, he saw a lot of the ball, but not much came off. Against players more of his stature it was a surprise how easy he was muscled off the ball or closed down quickly. Agree with RLCs assessment of where he’s likely to do best.
 
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Thanks for writing my post for me, drw! All I would add is when I watched Liverpool in the sixties and seventies, they were packed with local lads and just as successful as today. Lawrence, Lawler, Byrne, Smith, Thompson P, Callaghan, Hunt, Melia et al - all internationals. Later on, Fowler, Carragher and Gerrard were exceptions to the rule.

EPL clubs can now afford the cream of world talent, leaving no room for local lads to develop unless they are exceptional and prodigious like TAA. The success rate of EPL development programmes is appalling and has gone backwards in my lifetime.

At the other end of the scale, Rovers used to have a steady stream of home-grown youngsters including McFarland, Coppell, Tynan, Irons, Mahon, Nolan, Thomas and Hill, who all moved on to the top division. The last three to come through our youth scheme to play more than a handful of games were Power, Stockton and Kirby. Since then, recruitment has largely been free transfers from other clubs.

So the big clubs and the top players have got a lot richer, while further down the pyramid players often face an annual battle to stay in a job and many clubs struggle to survive.
 

Boz

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Liverpool seem like real bully boys in this though with their prohibitive financial penalties if their loan players don’t play.
 
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Liverpool seem like real bully boys in this though with their prohibitive financial penalties if their loan players don’t play.
In recent years they seem to have dumped their dross on us for the most part as well. There have been very few successful loans from them in the last decade.
 

drwhoman

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In recent years they seem to have dumped their dross on us for the most part as well. There have been very few successful loans from them in the last decade.
I see it more as an attempt to find a home for players who are not going to make it at the highest level. Glatzel is clearly a skilful and clever player but has he got what it takes to prosper in a league where toughness, desire and commitment are so important? Time will tell but he is only 20.
 
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