Next Season and Salary Caps

bigmart

bigmart
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The gap is difficult to bridge organically as is the bridge between Championship and EPL; it is not impossible though. Why should any individual be prevented from financing a football club to bridge those gaps, though? Why should Blackburn be allowed their Jack Walker and Chelsea their Abramovic (etc ad infinitum) but Salford or, God forbid, Tranmere Rovers not theirs? Providing a club is well managed why shouldn't it be supported by new owners who are willing to put their money in? What incentive is there to invest in a L1 team if you can't gain an advantage by paying more wages and recruiting better players?

It is interesting to see how many EPL teams have actually moved by 2 divisions in the past 10 seasons - more than you may think. We have Wolves, Sheff U, Southampton, Brighton, Bournemouth and Norwich in the EPL all of whom we played in our last stint in L1. A fixed salary cap feels like pulling up the drawbridge.

Take away the dreams of the HAVE NOTS and the world looks a far bleaker place.
Football is in need of people to put money into clubs and the game in general rather than the possibility of taking out of the game like the glazers are.doing at man united.
 

ONIGP

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I don't have any problem with market forces being curbed at an exceptional time like this. The future stability of my and every other lower division club matters more than ideological purity.

As I have said, why does the operation of the market trump responsible ownership, good coaching and good management ? If they become the key determining factors behind success and failure, rather than money, I think it will be good for football.

At the macro level, size of support and investment levels will still largely determine which clubs win the Premier League, qualify for Europe and so on.
Exactly, "an exceptional time like this" If you are referring to the pandemic then is the proposal time bound to allow recovery?

Responsible ownership, good coaching and good management means a well run club. "Good management" by definition implies that you are at the very least running at break-even. As I've said properly the EFL should properly enforce FFP rather than issuing unenforceable words and paying lip service to the idea. If a a revenue based salary cap helps to reinforce this, I don't see that as a problem.

While support and investment levels will determine the cup winners etc., thety will come out of a pool which is a closed shop. That pool will continue to suck the cash from the teams outside it.
 
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Jason Koumas / John Morrissey
The gap is difficult to bridge organically as is the bridge between Championship and EPL; it is not impossible though. Why should any individual be prevented from financing a football club to bridge those gaps, though? Why should Blackburn be allowed their Jack Walker and Chelsea their Abramovic (etc ad infinitum) but Salford or, God forbid, Tranmere Rovers not theirs? Providing a club is well managed why shouldn't it be supported by new owners who are willing to put their money in? What incentive is there to invest in a L1 team if you can't gain an advantage by paying more wages and recruiting better players?

It is interesting to see how many EPL teams have actually moved by 2 divisions in the past 10 seasons - more than you may think. We have Wolves, Sheff U, Southampton, Brighton, Bournemouth and Norwich in the EPL all of whom we played in our last stint in L1. A fixed salary cap feels like pulling up the drawbridge.

Take away the dreams of the HAVE NOTS and the world looks a far bleaker place.
It is not designed to take away the dreams of the have nots, and none of the examples you give were 'have nots', they were bankrolled clubs.

There is nothing to stop an ambitious owner from reaching the top two divisions under this proposal. It gives a greater number of ambitious owners the opportunity to progress their clubs in Leagues One and Two. But they will achieve success by good management, not purely by spending money.

How much they choose to spend once they reach the Championship and Premier League is up to them.
 
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Exactly, "an exceptional time like this" If you are referring to the pandemic then is the proposal time bound to allow recovery?

Responsible ownership, good coaching and good management means a well run club. "Good management" by definition implies that you are at the very least running at break-even. As I've said properly the EFL should properly enforce FFP rather than issuing unenforceable words and paying lip service to the idea. If a a revenue based salary cap helps to reinforce this, I don't see that as a problem.

While support and investment levels will determine the cup winners etc., thety will come out of a pool which is a closed shop. That pool will continue to suck the cash from the teams outside it.
This proposal does not increase inequalities between the top two and bottom two divisions, but those inequalities will only be reduced when there is spending restraint at the higher levels of the game. The gap can't be addressed by lower division clubs gambling, borrowing and spending money they do not have, as at present.

The absence of spending restraint in the top two divisions is not an argument for everyone else to keep spending unsustainably.
 

ONIGP

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those inequalities will only be reduced when there is spending restraint at the higher levels of the game. The gap can't be addressed by lower division clubs gambling, borrowing and spending money they did not have, as at present.
I absolutely agree with this, just not the mechanism of a fixed wage cap being placed on clubs as the means to address it. I may have mentioned this.
 

Ian

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I absolutely agree with this, just not the mechanism of a fixed wage cap
Something has to be done about wages as clubs are spending silly money that they simply do not have.
 
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I absolutely agree with this, just not the mechanism of a fixed wage cap being placed on clubs as the means to address it. I may have mentioned this.
I think the preference for a wage cap rather than FFP is purely because FFP has proved pretty much unenforceable, and the cap is a very simple mechanism. I would not object to FFP if it could be made to work, but the cap seems more likely to achieve its intended aim.

Anyway, I think I will call it a day......
 

ONIGP

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I think the preference for a wage cap rather than FFP is purely because FFP has proved pretty much unenforceable, and the cap is a very simple mechanism. I would not object to FFP if it could be made to work, but the cap seems more likely to achieve its intended aim.

Anyway, I think I will call it a day......
Yeah, me too! ;)
 

drwhoman

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You are correct RLC. The bottom line in a salary cap is that it stops wealthier clubs from having the ability to spend more on better players to improve their chances of success, it also discourages less wealthy clubs from taking huge financial risks which, if things do not happen, results in them failing financially. A level playing field.
 
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aldo
MP has helped the EFL, he was on the panel who suggested the salary cap. he knows more abt finance than most of all of us to be able to understand I trust him and we all know he is looking out for rovers but also other clubs in the lower LG,s. at the end of the day, clubs can not keep spending the way they do it will go tits up in the end and no one will be able to help so it needs doing one way or another
 
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aldo
was thinking the same thing at the end of the day I would rather be in our shoes than the bury,s, and Macclesfield,s and Oldham,s and teams like them who can,t pay the wages and have court cases against them
 

ADD

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RLC and ONIGP you can't finish now. I have missed all the excitement:)
One final comment from me as drafted it simply does not work. As I said originally there would effectively be no relegation or promotion from the Championship as every year those that go down will have grace period rights re the salary cap which guarantees they will go back up the following year.
Salary caps work only when there is no promotion or relegation eg Premiership rugby (almost but what they want) and American Football.
FFP is easier to police the lower you go down as no company will finance naming rights on Preston Park for £450m on a " commercial" basis.
RLC we will wait and see but I would be amazed if MP wants a salary cap on the basis of what is being discussed by the EFL. If he does then we will likely all have our own opinions as to why.
 
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It is Palios who proposed the salary cap, so you might be surprised. If FFP was so easy to implement, he would have proposed that instead. And owners lower down have tried to circumvent the rules through sponsorship deals with their own companies (Forest Green being one example).

It will make little difference to movements between the Championship and League One, where the financial gulf is already massive, and it can and will work (there is promotion and relegation in Rugby Union FWIW).
 

Boz

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A couple of things tangential to this.

Firstly none of the sizeably bankrolled clubs in L2, thinking Mansfield, Salford, Forest Green went up this season. Money for players doesn’t guarantee success.

Also if the salary cap is purely on the playing budget, then it can be mitigated to a degree by paying over the odds for best manager, coaches, physios etc. While that may not have as great an impact as money on players, it is still capable of being significant. In an ideal world enforceable FFP would be the way to go.
 
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aldo
we are supposed to have FFP now but it don,t work. as Mp said in the first facebook Q/A if they break the rules fine em or point deductions for clubs. should be brought in the likes of Salford when the boys with toys leave then they will fall back to there level. the likes of Mansfield. their owner will stop paying stupid money over time you just can,t sustain it.
 
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Alan King, Barry Dyson
Thanks ONIGP and RLC for an interesting debate. Surely the longest ever on this site. Fair play to all concerned for seizing the opportunity to introduce reform. But do you really think it will be introduced - at least without being watered down so much it would be ineffective?
 
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