League Two Dale v Rovers

Match result

  • Rochdale

    Votes: 2 25.0%
  • Draw

    Votes: 3 37.5%
  • Tranmere

    Votes: 3 37.5%

  • Total voters
    8
  • Poll closed .

Charlton1975

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Jason Koumas
The defence have defended well because every game we are having to! Every single game this season has been attack v defence. In some of those games they could have scored 3 or 4 and it would have been fair.

All this talk of this squad being superior to that of last season, I am yet to see anything that backs that up. It is too old and too slow. The tactics so far this season have been far too negative, which makes me wonder if Micky is playing this defensive, negative style because he doesnt feel he has the quality to compete, which is horrendous when you think of the teams in this division.

Again, Scunthorpe lost 0-4 at home today. They beat us comfortably.....
 

Boz

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By that perverse logic we have got the most potent strikeforce in the division !

I watched the game and we defended the box well. Rochdale have scored 2, 3 and 4 regularly in recent weeks, but were relatively restricted by our defence today.
According to the BBC website Rochdale had 17 shots to Rovers 9, with the hosts having 4 on target to our 1. If we’re reliant on statistics rather than accepting they can be used to prove anything as the saying quoted, then allowing an opponent 17 shots doesn’t suggest great defending.

As I suggested earlier, some of our difficulties today came from a lack of protection further up the park. My perspective was that 4 of our defenders did decent jobs but for successive games Morris looked out of his depth as left wing-back. Rochdale had a more balanced attack so he was not under as much pressure as the Pools game. If we are to persist with 5 at the back then Micky needs to try another option at lwb.
 
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According to the BBC website Rochdale had 17 shots to Rovers 9, with the hosts having 4 on target to our 1. If we’re reliant on statistics rather than accepting they can be used to prove anything as the saying quoted, then allowing an opponent 17 shots doesn’t suggest great defending.
Lies, damned lies and statistics...... I would say Rochdale had about three or four very good chances in the game, with the rest being half chances or speculative efforts.

Four shots on target is actually a very low total considering how much of the ball they had in our half of the pitch, particularly in the first half, which suggests the box was defended well.

I have acknowledged that the midfield was poor today, largely down to Watson going missing again. My point was that the back five, aside from Morris, defended well.
 
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I haven’t seen Rovers this season. If I had paid good money to see any games, I might feel differently but surely we all knew we wouldn’t be hitting the ground running. The playing staff has had almost a complete overhaul with five players arriving only a few days ago. Yes, I am concerned about our lack of goals but you have to give Micky a chance to work out his best team and particularly his best strike force. Walker hasn’t been tried and Glatzel has never been picked in his best position.

We have been in a much worse position under Micky (autumn 2017). With hard work and perseverance he turned things round and we went up at the end of the season.
 
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I haven’t seen Rovers this season. If I had paid good money to see any games, I might feel differently but surely we all knew we wouldn’t be hitting the ground running. The playing staff has had almost a complete overhaul with five players arriving only a few days ago. Yes, I am concerned about our lack of goals but you have to give Micky a chance to work out his best team and particularly his best strike force. Walker hasn’t been tried and Glatzel has never been picked in his best position.

We have been in a much worse position under Micky (autumn 2017). With hard work and perseverance he turned things round and we went up at the end of the season.
We could also add that Maynard is not remotely match fit yet, but has already been written off by some. I thought his movement and awareness was impressive when he came on today.
 

drwhoman

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By that perverse logic we have got the most potent strikeforce in the division !

I watched the game and we defended the box well. Rochdale have scored 2, 3 and 4 regularly in recent weeks, but were relatively restricted by our defence today.
No one is arguing that we did not defend well. Three goals in seven games is very impressive. The issue is - would we score more with a different set up albeit that we might let in one or two more at the other end? At the moment we need wins not draws but all we have seen so far is a couple of 1-0 wins, two 0-0 draws and three 0-1 losses. We all accept that we are only seven games in but there will be no promotion push if things do not change and these sorts of stats continue.
 
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No one is arguing that we did not defend well. Three goals in seven games is very impressive. The issue is - would we score more with a different set up albeit that we might let in one or two more at the other end? At the moment we need wins not draws but all we have seen so far is a couple of 1-0 wins, two 0-0 draws and three 0-1 losses. We all accept that we are only seven games in but there will be no promotion push if things do not change and these sorts of stats continue.
People were precisely suggesting that we had not defended well ! That is what I was challenging, not whether a change of system could help us to create more (it could).
 

Ian

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Where are these youngsters supposed to get the experience from? This is league 2, it is an awful standard, these players are more than capable of this level.
They get experience by playing games, not being used as the main men to get the job done and certainly not at the expense of the club. Would you be happy with a front two of Glatzel and Nevitt all season?

If needed they drop down even lower, get the games they need and if they have something about them, they will fight their way up again. Glatzel has very little chance of making the Liverpool XI so will need to make the drop if he wants to make a career out of football.

For me, it is too soon to drop these players directly into the first team and expect them to perform every week. Nevitt works hard but I think he is well out of his depth.
 

Sparky

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Agree with BBTC that it is stilll early days, albeit I have big concerns but I’m sure we all did in the season we beat borehamwood when we could hardly score early in the season, so let’s give Micky a chance as he deserves it given what he has done for the club.

I was disappointed Maynard didn’t start. Yes he wasnt great last week but he’ll only get more match fitness by starting games. Even if he plays 5 games of 60/70 mins and doesn’t score, I’m hopefully he’ll come good. Otherwise a start, then a sub, then a start just doesn’t work
 

Charlton1975

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They get experience by playing games, not being used as the main men to get the job done and certainly not at the expense of the club. Would you be happy with a front two of Glatzel and Nevitt all season?

If needed they drop down even lower, get the games they need and if they have something about them, they will fight their way up again. Glatzel has very little chance of making the Liverpool XI so will need to make the drop if he wants to make a career out of football.

For me, it is too soon to drop these players directly into the first team and expect them to perform every week. Nevitt works hard but I think he is well out of his depth.
I think Glatzel is definitely good enough to perform at this level. I would play him an Maynard up front. Nevitt has been a bonus so far in that he has worked hard, but agreed that he does look out a little out of his depth.

We need more than just experience, as we have that in abundance, and teams seem to be able to cope with our old, slow team very comfortably.
 
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Just picking up on Sparky's point about Maynard, our best move yesterday, and probably of the whole season so far, came in the build up to Foley's effort against the post. There was great movement off the ball and slick interplay, and Maynard was at the heart of it with a clever run and a nice back heel.

Despite his age, I think he can give us that bit of movement and guile we are lacking.
 
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bigmart

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The recruitment is the big problem for me, there does not appear to be a proper plan in place and the approach has been scattergun and that's bring kind and going forward this has to massively improve if we are going to do well going forward.
From what I've heard has now left the club so maybe things may change going forward but I'm far from convinced
 
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The recruitment is the big problem for me, there does not appear to be a proper plan in place and the approach has been scattergun and that's bring kind and going forward this has to massively improve if we are going to do well going forward.
From what I've heard has now left the club so maybe things may change going forward but I'm far from convinced
There definitely is not any clear strategy in terms of the age profile of the squad, or the style of play, unlike a club such as Forest Green for example.

I have said previously that we probably need a properly qualified director of football, rather than MP having such a hands on role in all aspects of the playing side.
 

Boz

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Lies, damned lies and statistics...... I would say Rochdale had about three or four very good chances in the game, with the rest being half chances or speculative efforts.

Four shots on target is actually a very low total considering how much of the ball they had in our half of the pitch, particularly in the first half, which suggests the box was defended well.

I have acknowledged that the midfield was poor today, largely down to Watson going missing again. My point was that the back five, aside from Morris, defended well.
Only Sutton with 18, had more goal attempts than Rochdale yesterday in L2. I agree that the hosts only had a handful of decent chances, but the fact that they're getting so many opportunities to have a go for goal is a concern. To reiterate my earlier observation defending is a whole team responsibility. I'm not disputing that the genuine defenders in the back five did a good job, rather highlighting the lack of protection from those in front of them. Agreed Watson was anonymous yesterday, don't know if the harsh yellow card was a factor, but Spearing was below par too, while aside from Nevitt none of the forwards got stuck in, hence Rochdale were able to move from defence to attack fairly swiftly.

I'm surprised that with MM after deciding that wing-backs are the way forward and knowing of Macdonald's fitness issue didn't try and arrange the loan of a left-sided defender capable of playing that role. What troubles is that he persists in using Morris in that position, despite Kieron struggling with the defensive aspect of the role. It would be interesting to know why Merrie wasn't given an opportunity, played at left-back pre-season and did ok and showed his attacking capability in setting up the Walsall goal.

On the forward issue, Nevitt is getting more time than anyone expected, which highlights the issues with our initial recruiting and waiting for McNulty. He's learning very quickly and wouldn't say out of his depth, though at this stage of his development it's looking unlikely he'll be prolific this season. Maynard played well when he came on and I like the way he moves off the ball, drawing defenders and creating space for team-mates. It's a moot point whether he should be starting games when not fully match-fit, the idea of Calum Macdonald playing his way back to full fitness doesn't seem to have gone that well. Glatzel has looked a bit lightweight so far though being played out of position.

I recognise Micky has only had a short time and a considerable number of players to bed in but perhaps more options should have been explored in pre-season. To put it into context when Rovers were beating Rangers in their first pre-season friendly, Robbie Stockdale had just been appointed Rochdale's manager. While Dale had a bigger nucleus of players under contract, there was still significant recruitment required and don't think Robbie had worked with any of their players before.
 
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I thought Spearing played well yesterday but was left with too much work to do by Watson.

I don't think Mellon does want to play with wing backs. He wants to play with a back four, but does not trust Maguire, and Mac Donald has ongoing fitness issues. I do agree that Merrie at left back in a back four would be a better option than the way we are setting up at the moment.
 
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The recruitment is the big problem for me, there does not appear to be a proper plan in place and the approach has been scattergun and that's bring kind and going forward this has to massively improve if we are going to do well going forward.
From what I've heard has now left the club so maybe things may change going forward but I'm far from convinced
Has there been an explanation for his going?
Isn't he on the board?

You can't forget that MP has final word on players, and RLC is right, the micro managing of the football side, is typical of the last three seasons.
I don't believe that we have had the quality of players, according to MP, that the club have spent so much money on.
Recruitment and longer contracts for younger players, does have a positive impact on the team. There is no continuity, loyalty from players to the club is limited. And it showed in the warm up, halfhearted and going through the motions.
Performance levels are just not good enough.
We do seem to be in a down spiral again.
What ever the reason for our poor start. It's up to the players to get us back on track.
It cent get any worse again?
Can it?
 

ADD

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Not every team has had the turnover of players we have had, nor did they all bring in several players on deadline day. In any case, seven games is an unreasonable period of time to judge any squad or manager.

You are scathing about the historic performance of Palios and Mellon in terms of squad building, yet they were the duo that delivered back to back promotions and our greatest successes in twenty years. Who claims the credit for constructing those teams (and don't say Brabin - he did not even want to sign Cook and Jennings) ?
I don't know how many players we signed on deadline day v all the other teams in the division but my perspective is that many teams left it late. Plus we had the vast majority of the squad recruited long before that. In any event if we were later than most others then whose fault is that? Can only be MM/MP/ Beck or some combination of the 3. Meanwhile Harrogate who started recruitment later than anyone else due play offs seem to have managed fine.
 
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I don't know how many players we signed on deadline day v all the other teams in the division but my perspective is that many teams left it late. Plus we had the vast majority of the squad recruited long before that. In any event if we were later than most others then whose fault is that? Can only be MM/MP/ Beck or some combination of the 3. Meanwhile Harrogate who started recruitment later than anyone else due play offs seem to have managed fine.
Very few teams signed five players in key positions, including centre forward, on the final day.

My key point was that we have had a massive overhaul of the entire squad - more than twenty players - of the kind that very few other clubs have had. It is unreasonable to believe things will immediately click into place when there is that much change in one transfer window.

Harrogate were not in the play offs. Hartlepool were, but had more of their core squad already in place than we did.

Interestingly, although he is currently flavour of the month in some quarters, Challinor finished in the bottom half of the National League in his first season in charge at Hartlepool, following a major squad overhaul. Patience is required when there is significant change, irrespective of who the manager is.
 

Charlton1975

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The model of signing old players comes with a huge risk in terms of their fitness, desire and durability to manage a long season (Clarke is a freak!).

Giving short term and 1 year contracts to the vast majority of the squad also means that we will be in this position year after year, scrabbling around for out of contract 35 year olds on deadline day is a horrendous place to be in.
 
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