League Two Bluebirds v Rovers

Bluebirds v Rovers
Posted by Ian
Holker Street
Tuesday, December 29, 2020 - 07:45 PM
Until: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 - 09:30 PM
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Jason Koumas / John Morrissey
I'm sure it does. My earlier point was more in terms of what expectations there were in terms of a new manager coming into a club. Take Adams, lots of experience and a generally favourable press from fans of previous clubs. Although it turned out to be a disastrous appointment, nobody could have foreseen that. My criticism of Mark Palios then was that he didn't change things when MA had lost the plot, but the season was still capable of being turned round.

Can understand why Mark wanted some experience, but after the Dawes/Parky combo had gone so well it was hard to get rid of them. Hence appointing someone who would work with them made sense and probably explains why Hurst, who appears to be joined at the hip with Chris Doig, didn't come Hill's appointment didn't ring alarm bells but I expect some of the adverse reaction was down to some of the sexier names we'd been linked with, but in reality were always highly unlikely. Despite the rather negative approach at Barrow, I agree with BBTC that we should allow KH more time and see what transpires.
We should make the decision that is in the long term interest of the club, even if it is difficult in the short term. If there was a high level candidate who was available that would not work with Dawes, we should have appointed him and let Dawes go. If there was no such candidate, it would have been reasonable to let Dawes continue in the job for the foreseeable future (on a rolling contract if need be - there is no reason why such details have to be made public) and replace him if / when it went ti*s up.
 

Boz

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Iain Hume
We should make the decision that is in the long term interest of the club, even if it is difficult in the short term. If there was a high level candidate who was available that would not work with Dawes, we should have appointed him and let Dawes go. If there was no such candidate, it would have been reasonable to let Dawes continue in the job for the foreseeable future (on a rolling contract if need be - there is no reason why such details have to be made public) and replace him if / when it went ti*s up.
I don't disagree, but suspect there wasn't any high level candidate willing to come, but for Dawes. Mark preferred to go down the experienced route, but maybe as you suggest he'd have been better sticking with Dawes and Parky.
 
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The reality is, I was in two minds about giving the job to Dawes at the time, which I think most people were. If it was a straight choice between Hurst and Dawes, I don't know who I would have opted for.

But in a sense, that is the wider point I am making. These decisions are difficult and our record of managerial appointments in recent years is poor, and I think Palios could do with more assistance.
 

ONIGP

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All the above points are valid but how wonderful is hindsight? None would have been raised if our winning run had continued.
 

ONIGP

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Not really, whether the run continued or not the points you made regarding process and diligence are still good ones and equally valid.
 

bigmart

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MP wanted a "name" as manager hence why th delay in appointment as he was in discussions with Nigel Adkins but bu the time that fell through he then turned to an experienced manager in Keith Hill.
 
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aldo
well I think Smith will defo go and think young will go, I would not be surprised if Paynes contract is not paid off he only has 6 months left so won't be much can see Morgan going and see some forwards coming in
 

drwhoman

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As has been said much is hindsight now. I would have preferred Dawes to continue but Hill was appointed. We have what we have. That said, comment has been made about Boards of Directors, the need for MP to have third party feedback etc. My understanding is that Mark and Nicola own the club? If So they can do what they like. However, we all know that Mark is a highly experienced football executive and I would most surprised if he did not seek feedback from the many football people he knows. Hill does has had some past success which is presumably why he was appointed. It was not a decision taken lightly. We can only hope that Hill gets it right, not only for us fans, but also in terms of Mark and Nicola’s pockets. In the time of Covid they may well have to dig deep financially if he fails. Earn your wages Keith!
 
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Hindsight is 20-20, but learning from experience and past errors is crucial in life.

Seeking informal advice is not the same as being challenged by a colleague on an equal footing.
 
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drwhoman

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Hindsight is 20-20, but learning from experience and past errors is crucial in life.

Seeking informal advice is not the same as being challenged by a colleague on an equal footing.
I agree but a Director who is has no financial interest is not on an equal footing in a private company. They are in no position to argue with the owner about spending his money. Different if public where they are beholden to a wide shareholder base. I can recall many private companies that had Boards of Directors but they were often there for a specific reason. I can think of several that had well known sporting people on their Boards. They were clearly there to assist marketing. Take them to the cocktail parties etc to smooze the prospective partners/customers etc. I must confess that I did forget the Indonesians. I imagine that Mark spoke to them but I am not sure what they might add. Indeed, I am not completely sure why they invested in Rovers (not complaining!) - they like English football maybe, Mark is a good guy, could even be an Indonesian tax angle on it! At the same time, Indonesia is having big Covid issues so Rovers might be the least of their concerns as their investment might be pocket money for them!

See what happens!! I always admire your dedication RLC and I always know that your match reports will be on the money. Thanks!
 
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Jason Koumas / John Morrissey
The fact that Palios owns the club and hence is not obliged to listen to advice is the whole point I am making though. We all need to receive constructive criticism on occasions and at many clubs a Chief Executive or fellow director would be in a position to provide that criticism (Corfe and Johnson in the recent past here, for example).

The recent Indonesian investment actually means Mark himself will be under some scrutiny in the months ahead.
 

drwhoman

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The fact that Palios owns the club and hence is not obliged to listen to advice is the whole point I am making though. We all need to receive constructive criticism on occasions and at many clubs a Chief Executive or fellow director would be in a position to provide that criticism (Corfe and Johnson in the recent past here, for example).

The recent Indonesian investment actually means Mark himself will be under some scrutiny in the months ahead.
I hear exactly what you say RLC. A couple of thoughts. Who might he appoint who would provide more value than his contacts around the game? Secondly, who would become a Director knowing that the final decision is always Mark’s and, at the same time you would be taking on legal responsibilities that might not hurt you financially but might damage you reputation wise if things went pear shaped? Any fee would probably be small and at best you might get a monthly free lunch! Anyway, all surmise on my part! Who knows the reality?
 
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I am not suggesting he should appoint a director (although there is no reason why he could not if he wanted to). I am saying it is unusual for an owner to make these decisions alone and the recruitment process probably needs to be reviewed.

Our record of one successful appointment in four (jury still out on Hill, but early signs not good) needs improvement.
 

drwhoman

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I am not suggesting he should appoint a director (although there is no reason why he could not if he wanted to). I am saying it is unusual for an owner to make these decisions alone and the recruitment process probably needs to be reviewed.

Our record of one successful appointment in four (jury still out on Hill, but early signs not good) needs improvement.
I take your point RLC and I agree that some appointments have not worked but I suspect that the situation at Rovers is no dissimilar to many other EFL clubs? Would different decisions have been taken if we had independent directors? Who knows! Anyway, we have what we have. We can only hope that KH does better than he has to date!
 

Ian

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It is still early days for KH but he's hardly pulling up trees. Doesn't quite seem to have the rapport with the fans either. Let's see what the Jan transfer windows brings.
 
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I take your point RLC and I agree that some appointments have not worked but I suspect that the situation at Rovers is no dissimilar to many other EFL clubs? Would different decisions have been taken if we had independent directors? Who knows! Anyway, we have what we have. We can only hope that KH does better than he has to date!
A number of other clubs have been consistently more successful with their appointments than us, and there is a discrepancy between how stable and well managed we are as a club in other regards and our poor appointment record.
 
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It is still early days for KH but he's hardly pulling up trees. Doesn't quite seem to have the rapport with the fans either. Let's see what the Jan transfer windows brings.
Indeed, let us hope for something better at Colchester today.
 
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