League Two Bluebirds v Rovers

Bluebirds v Rovers
Posted by Ian
Holker Street
Tuesday, December 29, 2020 - 07:45 PM
Until: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 - 09:30 PM
(Adjusted for timezone: Europe/London)
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Sparky

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Yes plus the fact that everyone is beating everyone else and we’re still only a few points off the play offs means less pressure.

p.s Happy New Year!
 

Boz

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Brabin was viewed unfavourably by the fans of the clubs in a similar position to us when he managed them; Cambridge and Luton. Hill didn't seem to be liked by Bolton fans though it wasn't clear why, but generally liked at Rochdale and even Barnsley fans recognised he'd had the rug pulled from under him. Just about everyone thought Adams was a good appointment when he joined us, little did we know...

I find Keith Hill's remarks about securing a point against ten men disappointing, but think he will see the season out and then judgements will be made.

Happy New Year to all who post on here!
 

bigmart

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There are a lot of similarities between Hill and Brabin on the evidence so far. The football is slightly better than under Brabin, but there is the same negativity, inconsistency and settling for mediocrity rather than really trying to push and inspire the players.

Hill's comment that he was happy with a draw at ten man Barrow was similar to Brabin's insistence that we should accept being a non league club like the Wrexham supporters had.

Also playing square pegs in round holes.
Agreed and against a poor Barrow team likely to be in a relegation battle rest of the season.

Anyway happy new year to all on here and stay safe everybody. And thanks to Ian for running a fantastic site.
 
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From Hill's pre match interview it sounds like he is not entirely happy with the squad and there will be changes in January. I suppose it is reasonable to allow him to bring in players loyal to him and who are suited to his methods, but let's hope the quality of the squad is at least maintained at the end of that process.
 

bigmart

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From Hill's pre match interview it sounds like he is not entirely happy with the squad and there will be changes in January. I suppose it is reasonable to allow him to bring in players loyal to him and who are suited to his methods, but let's hope the quality of the squad is at least maintained at the end of that process.
This could well be key but I think theres little room for movement without several going out.
 
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I just think the way the team was playing b4 hill came in was some of the most attacking football we have seen at Tranmere for a Long time, ok it could have gone tits up, I just get a feeling that MP has made a Mistake his manager appointments apart from brain who was not bad and Micky who is A Legend the rest have been shit,
 
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if we need players we need someone to support Vaughn, we need someone to help Clarke at the back, could do with a centre mid who can tackle cross a ball score goal and close down, not too much to ask is it, sorry lads the jack D is kicking in
 

ADD

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From Hill's pre match interview it sounds like he is not entirely happy with the squad and there will be changes in January. I suppose it is reasonable to allow him to bring in players loyal to him and who are suited to his methods, but let's hope the quality of the squad is at least maintained at the end of that process.
Yes I agree RLC he seemed to be suggesting that very much so.
He is still claiming the Grimsby result as one of his which winds me up in itself and thought it was another poor press conference - lots of waffle again. The difference now compared with how he sounded when he first took over is very noticeable..
I doubt we will have much leeway in any event for signings unless we can get rid of a few. Smith I assume goes back in January and we will ask Celtic to take O'Connor back early or they will pull him anyhow but that doesn't free much salary from the cap plus we are close to maxed out numbers wise. I suppose Manny and CBT most likely to go to free up budget.
 
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I reckon he will also try and ship out Ray, Ellis and Khan on loan. There will probably be takers for the latter two, although I am not sure why they have been frozen out, particularly Khan.
 

ADD

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I reckon he will also try and ship out Ray, Ellis and Khan on loan. There will probably be takers for the latter two, although I am not sure why they have been frozen out, particularly Khan.
Yes agreed... Ellis and Khan and will get takers if they agree to go on loan whilst Ray might be for the first time tempted to look at loan as he needs to be in the shop window for a contract somewhere for next season but even if he does go we will be stuck with a fair part of his wages...
 

Ian

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Ellis has been useful but pretty injury prone, Khan still has potential and Ray was a complete waste of a signing. Hopefully we can make the right tweaks in Jan to bolster our results.
 

Boz

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Suggestion on another site that both Ray and Payne have contract extension options, no idea of the truth of this, but you could see Ray hanging around for another year if it was correct.

If anyone wants Manny now and will give us a nominal fee, he may be off, so probably worth keeping Ellis if that happens.

Khan is a strange one. Very disappointing start under Jackson, seemed to improve under Dawes and I can't see why he's fallen so out of favour now.

O'Connor again has been ok and Keith Hill's obsession with playing a left-back on the right side (but not the converse) is hard to fathom. Big failure of Mike Jackson, particularly given his intension to play so defensively, was his failure to recruit right-back cover, at the expense of attacking midfielders. Ideally we needed an Adam Buxton type player capable of filling in competently across the back, which none of our current central defenders are able to do.
 
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Brabin was viewed unfavourably by the fans of the clubs in a similar position to us when he managed them; Cambridge and Luton. Hill didn't seem to be liked by Bolton fans though it wasn't clear why, but generally liked at Rochdale and even Barnsley fans recognised he'd had the rug pulled from under him. Just about everyone thought Adams was a good appointment when he joined us, little did we know...

I find Keith Hill's remarks about securing a point against ten men disappointing, but think he will see the season out and then judgements will be made.

Happy New Year to all who post on here!
But surely our recruitment process goes beyond the anecdotal evidence of a few opposition supporters on fans forums ?

I wonder whether the absence of a formal board of directors hinders us when we make appointments, as there is not anybody to really challenge MP's decisions. NP had no prior football experience before arriving at the club.

In the specific case of Dawes / Hill, if retaining Dawes was so central to the recruitment process, why was Dawes not simply given the job permanently ? And did the requirement to keep Dawes prevent us from appointing a higher quality manager than Hill ? And if Hill was only third choice of our candidates (or lower), why were we prepared to take a relative gamble on him and not Dawes ?
 

Ian

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I think MP was pretty adamant he wanted someone at the helm with experience of managing in this division hence Hill over Dawes. Dawes didn't stand a chance really.

I wonder whether the absence of a formal board of directors hinders us when we make appointments, as there is not anybody to really challenge MP's decisions. NP had no prior football experience before arriving at the club.
That's a really great point actually. MP seems to be the sole decision maker when it comes down to high level recruitment and who is going to challenge him? I'm not sure that's a healthy situation as like you mentioned previously, his record of recruiting managers is pretty poor in all honesty.
 
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I wonder whether the absence of a formal board of directors hinders us when we make appointments, as there is not anybody to really challenge MP's decisions. NP had no prior football experience before arriving at the club.
Frankly, we are lucky to have ONE football person on the board, never mind several. How many other owners have played the game and had responsibility for its governance?

Appointing a manager is probably the most difficult task any owner has. How many last a year? Even Ian Holloway didn't.

However, I think a lot of managers are never given a fair chance. Often the most successful are those who start poorly but are given time. The classic example is Alex Ferguson, who went 3 1/2 years before his first trophy. Another is Micky Mellon. Many of us were calling for his head in October 2017 when were were languishing near the bottom of the NL.

Give Keith Hill a bit more slack. He's done it twice before. See what transpires in this month's window. You may be surprised.
 

Boz

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But surely our recruitment process goes beyond the anecdotal evidence of a few opposition supporters on fans forums ?

I wonder whether the absence of a formal board of directors hinders us when we make appointments, as there is not anybody to really challenge MP's decisions. NP had no prior football experience before arriving at the club.

In the specific case of Dawes / Hill, if retaining Dawes was so central to the recruitment process, why was Dawes not simply given the job permanently ? And did the requirement to keep Dawes prevent us from appointing a higher quality manager than Hill ? And if Hill was only third choice of our candidates (or lower), why were we prepared to take a relative gamble on him and not Dawes ?
I'm sure it does. My earlier point was more in terms of what expectations there were in terms of a new manager coming into a club. Take Adams, lots of experience and a generally favourable press from fans of previous clubs. Although it turned out to be a disastrous appointment, nobody could have foreseen that. My criticism of Mark Palios then was that he didn't change things when MA had lost the plot, but the season was still capable of being turned round.

Can understand why Mark wanted some experience, but after the Dawes/Parky combo had gone so well it was hard to get rid of them. Hence appointing someone who would work with them made sense and probably explains why Hurst, who appears to be joined at the hip with Chris Doig, didn't come Hill's appointment didn't ring alarm bells but I expect some of the adverse reaction was down to some of the sexier names we'd been linked with, but in reality were always highly unlikely. Despite the rather negative approach at Barrow, I agree with BBTC that we should allow KH more time and see what transpires.
 

ADD

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Frankly, we are lucky to have ONE football person on the board, never mind several. How many other owners have played the game and had responsibility for its governance?

Appointing a manager is probably the most difficult task any owner has. How many last a year? Even Ian Holloway didn't.

However, I think a lot of managers are never given a fair chance. Often the most successful are those who start poorly but are given time. The classic example is Alex Ferguson, who went 3 1/2 years before his first trophy. Another is Micky Mellon. Many of us were calling for his head in October 2017 when were were languishing near the bottom of the NL.

Give Keith Hill a bit more slack. He's done it twice before. See what transpires in this month's window. You may be surprised.
BBC good points but nobody else of the Managers you have mentioned will have been recruited on the back of a 5 game winning run with the team transformed and by his own admisssion a very strong squad he was very happy with.

He didn't need time to turn things around as normally Managers do - the tide had been turned and we were on our way. He has come in though and completely changed mentality for the worse. If we had been languishing just above the relegation zone then fair enough - come in, start with dour football, play for a draw against a side hovering above the relegation zone down to 10 men if you must and bore the pants of the supporters who will accept it as they know we need to be more hard to beat...
Frankly the more I listen to him the more unconvincing he is becoming - he has worsened the team spirit, worsened the pattaern of play, clearly demotivated many of the players and is now saying well it must be the player's fault and I need to bring others in.
MP needs to take a good hard reality check and quickly in my book. Would be criminal to waste money we/ he can ill afford letting Hill bring in players to fit into the ultra cautious brand of football he seems to want to play.
 
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Frankly, we are lucky to have ONE football person on the board, never mind several. How many other owners have played the game and had responsibility for its governance?

Appointing a manager is probably the most difficult task any owner has. How many last a year? Even Ian Holloway didn't.

However, I think a lot of managers are never given a fair chance. Often the most successful are those who start poorly but are given time. The classic example is Alex Ferguson, who went 3 1/2 years before his first trophy. Another is Micky Mellon. Many of us were calling for his head in October 2017 when were were languishing near the bottom of the NL.

Give Keith Hill a bit more slack. He's done it twice before. See what transpires in this month's window. You may be surprised.
I don't know of any other business of a similar size, where a decision of such magnitude would be made by one individual without significant discussion and input from others with appropriate knowledge. I am not questioning Palios's talent or good intentions, I am questioning the PROCESS. It does not matter how experienced or intelligent Palios is, he is one human being and human beings are fallible and need the assistance of others. We are quite an unusual club in that we have completely dispensed with the board of directors for footballing decisions, which I believe can cause problems. We have non-executive directors specifically appointed to deal with communications, business-links etc., but nobody with a footballing remit.
 
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Frankly, we are lucky to have ONE football person on the board, never mind several. How many other owners have played the game and had responsibility for its governance?

Appointing a manager is probably the most difficult task any owner has. How many last a year? Even Ian Holloway didn't.

However, I think a lot of managers are never given a fair chance. Often the most successful are those who start poorly but are given time. The classic example is Alex Ferguson, who went 3 1/2 years before his first trophy. Another is Micky Mellon. Many of us were calling for his head in October 2017 when were were languishing near the bottom of the NL.

Give Keith Hill a bit more slack. He's done it twice before. See what transpires in this month's window. You may be surprised.
I was not, and Mellon had already proved himself with his superb performance in the previous season. Hill has no track record at this club.
 
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Frankly, we are lucky to have ONE football person on the board, never mind several. How many other owners have played the game and had responsibility for its governance?

Appointing a manager is probably the most difficult task any owner has. How many last a year? Even Ian Holloway didn't.

However, I think a lot of managers are never given a fair chance. Often the most successful are those who start poorly but are given time. The classic example is Alex Ferguson, who went 3 1/2 years before his first trophy. Another is Micky Mellon. Many of us were calling for his head in October 2017 when were were languishing near the bottom of the NL.

Give Keith Hill a bit more slack. He's done it twice before. See what transpires in this month's window. You may be surprised.
I have never suggested he can or should be sacked. I am questioning the appointment process, and the decision to retain Dawes as his assistant, rather than either offering him the job permanently, or bringing in a higher calibre candidate who was not willing to work with Dawes.
 
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