Want to join in? Register today. It's free and only takes a minute.
Discussion in 'Matchday' started by Boz, 10 Aug 2017.
As i understand it, Sutton had three ex-Dover players!
Dunn is primarily a winger, he just has not been used in that role yet. Ridehalgh's delivery into the box was superb last season, we got countless assists from him. He just had a poor game yesterday, the same as everyone else.
I am surprised at Alabi's . He showed promise against a poor Cammell Laird in terms of an understanding with Cook. He seemed to have balance and an ability to shoot. Same as on video clips for other teams. Wonder if it is a confidence issue or just overawed.
Think mal may be right about Alabis confidence. It's a big jump from Chester to title favourites. He started at Torquay and even if he didn't have the best of games, he's then dropped for the Woking game where he comes on and misses a sitter.
When we signed him I remember thinking he got 17 goals last season but 4 were in one game and several others were penalties - so despite the time it took to sign him I was never convinced he would be a better player than Cook or Nors. Personally I'd still prefer Mangan if given a run of games and played alongside Cook with wide delivery.
The worrying thing for me regarding Albi yesterday was that his movement was so poor: he really looked like a youth player in this regard. He needed to be running in behind the Sutton defence and stretching them, but he kept coming short for the ball and making the same movements as Cook. Then when he received it, the ball bounced off him.
He has come from a poor team to one where the standards are a lot higher, so hopefully he will improve.
Mangan was equally poor yesterday and I think I would still start with Dunn at Guiseley. I have been quite impressed by Dunn. He is clearly not the finished article but he has got skill and a football brain.
I think it's arguable whether Dunn is a winger. Looking at his playing history, he tends to get described as either a midfielder or forward. He doesn't often taken on his man near the touchline and lacks any great pace or, on what we've seen to date, crossing ability. While he can fill in the Norwood wide in a front three role, he doesn't show the work-rate or harrying of opponents that James does. I agree with what you say in the later thread about it being worth persisting with him, as he does think outside the box and has the potential to be a game changer.
On Ridehagh, I don't dispute what you say, but felt it was worth mentioning what Dave Higgins had said about his crossing on the radio. Higgy isn't generally on Liam's case in his commentary.
I was not actually questioning your comments about Ridehalgh: I think elsewhere someone said his crossing is poor.
I think you are wrong about Dunn. When he first arrived he played on the wing in a 442 with Tollitt on the other side and looked comfortable in that role. Regarding the wingers generally, we have Tollitt, Dunn, Rokka and Dawson who can play naturally on the wing, and Kirby and Norwood who can do a job out wide. I think that is sufficient to give us the options we need.
As physical as they were at times we played into their hands especially in the 2nd half when we just tried hit it upto cook and alibi who were outmuscled nearly every time, they had a defender booked early on but we didn't try to get at him .much We lacked pace throughout the team and not just the defence, we lacked creativity as well as width.
On the subject of wingers tho, we have a few names but they aren't enough IMO
Tollit - long term injury but hopefully back to how he was
Dunn - still unproven but has potential
Rokka - not sure he'll be the answer given his experience and MIckys views when we signed him about being one for the future
Dawson - Micky doesn't want him.
Nors/Kirby - square pegs in round holes plus let's be honest, Kirby has never done enough
So regardless of formation I still don't think we have enough wide options to play to the strengths of our best striker in Cook. Late Last season we had Cole who isn't a target man but Cookie is so lets play with proper wingers and he'll get 25 goals minimum. At this rate we'll be relying on Tollit to be the shining light but it'll take him a while to get back to the previous level.
Realistically though, how many wingers can we afford to have at the club ? Seven, eight ? And you will be very lucky to pick up another one as good as Tollitt. We have not seen enough of Dunn or Rokka to know how good they are, and the former looks a good player to me. As I have said previously, Mellon does not even seem to like 442 that much so the idea that we are going to switch to that system permanently now is misguided in my view.
And how many decent teams even play 442 these days ? Dagenham and Aldershot don't, and the former have a similar striker to Cook in Michael Cheek. For me flexibility is the key, rather nailing our colours to the mast with one system. Cook scored goals last season whatever system we played.
We can afford 5 out and out strikers plus Jennings, Dunn and Kirby all of whom could play as forwards, which seems extravagant when you only need 3 at most to start. In that context, two fit wide players who the manager will pick doesn't seem too big an ask.
As for formations, we didn't play an orthodox 442 too often last season as one of Dunn/Tollit was injured. The fact that Vaughan was allowed to go and not replaced suggests MM has largely abandoned the idea of wing-backs, though that worked well with our depleted resources. However, the second half of the Sutton game would not support an assertion that 2 forwards, no width is a solution. It will be interesting to see how we line up on Tuesday night, though suspect the 433/4321 option is most likely.
The second half of the Sutton game is not indicative of how every game will develop with that system. Norwood was not available for a start. So playing narrow with two strikers definitely is one of the options, as it was last season. We only played with wing backs for a few weeks at the end of the season. Mellon is picking dunn and will pick tollitt, so there are two of your wingers for starters. I have already listed the five players who can play wide and won't do so again. The manager has to balance all areas of the team and centre forward is arguably THE most important position on the pitch.