Fifty years ago - Tranmere v Chelsea

[bring back the cowshed!]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l2Zs0I-5wo
If you don’t like real nostalgia, don’t read on. I just thought some of you may be interested in seeing a film a mate found on YouTube of what must be the first time Rovers ever appeared on TV. It also happened to be the first “big” match I ever saw at Prenton Park. I was standing in the cowshed (of course). Almost exactly half a century ago we entertained Chelsea in the Third Round of the FA Cup. There was hardly any football on TV in those days. Match of the Day still had not started, but every Saturday evening there were brief filmed highlights of three of the top games. We were in the old Fourth Division at the time and the only reason our game was shown was that only three ties survived the weather, which marked the beginning of the worst winter since the war. At short notice, the BBC had to rig a temporary gantry on top of the old main stand. It must have been unpleasant for commentator Kenneth Wolstenholme, exposed up there in the freezing wind.

As you can see, conditions were atrocious. The ground was covered in a few inches of snow, which was still falling. It was bitterly cold and the Chelsea team wore gloves. I had never seen that before. The visitors were managed by Tommy Docherty and had six England internationals including Peter Bonetti and Terry Venables. We had a very young Johnny King and Merseyside legend Dave Hickson in our team. A incident involving Hickson shows that "simulation" in English football is not new. The conditions were a great leveller and we were unlucky not to win. King was injured early on. There were no subs in those days, so he went up front and scored the first goal. Although the film does not show it, I swear we had a header hit their post in the last five minutes. It was real treat for the 17,000 crowd.

Was anyone else there?

 

[drwhoman]

ROVERS V CHELSEA

I was not there BBTC but I have vague recollections of the game. I was a year or two too young to go to games on my own then my Bebington born parents living in Liverpool at the time. I went with Dad from time to time. I remember Dave - an old fashioned head down centre forward. I would imagine that the likes of Harry Leyland and Alan Arnell would have also have been in the team. Ralph Gubbins (what a great name!) also springs to mind. I first started going regularly a year or two later as Dave Russell started to put together what turned out to be a very entertaining team that we have discussed before. Gates of under 10,000 were a rarity. I think Wolves won the cup in 1960 - beat Blackburn 3-0 although Dave Whelan (who now owns Wigan) was taken off with a broken leg - so Rovers were down to ten men in the days before substitutes. Norman Deeley scored two I think. Funny talking about football on TV. You will recall there was a huge public debate about whether it would damage the game and attendances in particular. I think the first televised First Division game was Bolton v Burnley - not one that would be first choice today (!) but they were both strong teams in those days. Bolton won the cup in 58 when Nat Lofthouse bulldozed the Man Utd keeper Wood into the net (imagine that in 2012! - touch the goalie and it is a yellow card) and Burnley lost to Spurs in 62(?) for whom Jimmy Greaves scored I think.

 

[Rockford's Love Child]

Fantastic footage, thanks.

Do you think that game would be played today ?!

 

[drwhoman]

CHELSEA GAME

just had a chance to look at the clip BBTC. Alan Weekes presenting! See what you mean about the simulation involving Dave Hickson. A bit of trivia - has anyone else played for all three Merseyside clubs? I know Johnny Morrissey senior played for Pool and Everton and his son played for Rovers. Did JM senior also play for Rovers? I am not sure the second Rovers goal would have been allowed today - I can understand Chelsea complaining! This was January 63 of course. The winter of the big freeze. Snow on the ground for several months if I recall. I have just checked - we lost the replay 3-1 a week later. Tottenham beat Leicester in the final I think. Liverpool's first season back in Division One.

 

[Ian]

Far too many years back for a young whipper snapper like me to appreciate, but that's a great find. Enjoyable watch.

 

[bring back the cowshed!]

I was not there BBTC but I have vague recollections of the game. I was a year or two too young to go to games on my own then my Bebington born parents living in Liverpool at the time. I went with Dad from time to time. I remember Dave - an old fashioned head down centre forward. I would imagine that the likes of Harry Leyland and Alan Arnell would have also have been in the team. Ralph Gubbins (what a great name!) also springs to mind. I first started going regularly a year or two later as Dave Russell started to put together what turned out to be a very entertaining team that we have discussed before. Gates of under 10,000 were a rarity. I think Wolves won the cup in 1960 - beat Blackburn 3-0 although Dave Whelan (who now owns Wigan) was taken off with a broken leg - so Rovers were down to ten men in the days before substitutes. Norman Deeley scored two I think. Funny talking about football on TV. You will recall there was a huge public debate about whether it would damage the game and attendances in particular. I think the first televised First Division game was Bolton v Burnley - not one that would be first choice today (!) but they were both strong teams in those days. Bolton won the cup in 58 when Nat Lofthouse bulldozed the Man Utd keeper Wood into the net (imagine that in 2012! - touch the goalie and it is a yellow card) and Burnley lost to Spurs in 62(?) for whom Jimmy Greaves scored I think.

Yes, I am old enough to remember all that and saw those games on TV! How the game has changed. Substitutes, no back passes to the keeper, shirts with the player's name, not to mention all the money. BTW, the Blackburn goalie in 1960 cup final was - Harry Leyland!

What I forgot to mention was that the match was all-ticket. They sold them at a reserves match, which I went to the previous week (I think). So the gate that day for the second team was bigger than we get nowadays for the first team!

 

[bring back the cowshed!]

just had a chance to look at the clip BBTC. Alan Weekes presenting! See what you mean about the simulation involving Dave Hickson. A bit of trivia - has anyone else played for all three Merseyside clubs? I know Johnny Morrissey senior played for Pool and Everton and his son played for Rovers. Did JM senior also play for Rovers? I am not sure the second Rovers goal would have been allowed today - I can understand Chelsea complaining! This was January 63 of course. The winter of the big freeze. Snow on the ground for several months if I recall. I have just checked - we lost the replay 3-1 a week later. Tottenham beat Leicester in the final I think. Liverpool's first season back in Division One.

Sorry to hog this forum and show my age, yet again! I don't know of any other player who actually played for all three teams. Alec Chamberlain played for Everton and also for us on loan. He also signed for Liverpool as cover, but never played for the first team. The only other person I can think of with a connection was Dave Watson - youth team player at Liverpool, first-teamer at Everton and ..#'@*.. at Tranmere.

 

[drwhoman]

Chelsea game

Yes - I remember Harry - a larger guy along the lines of Tommy Lawrence. Not the tall highly athletic goalies you get between the sticks these days. Replaced by Jim Cumbes of course. Conroy left back - ex Bury - he would take a winger's legs off soon as look at him, to be later joined at right back by the equally ferocious Eddie Robertson, and Peter Jackson centre half ex Bradford?

 

[bring back the cowshed!]

Yes - I remember Harry - a larger guy along the lines of Tommy Lawrence. Not the tall highly athletic goalies you get between the sticks these days. Replaced by Jim Cumbes of course. Conroy left back - ex Bury - he would take a winger's legs off soon as look at him, to be later joined at right back by the equally ferocious Eddie Robertson, and Peter Jackson centre half ex Bradford?

Looking back they seemed happy days, but during the sixties I thought we would never get out of the Fourth Division. Actually, we've much a better team today than then - and better weather!

 

[drwhoman]

1960s

Agree BBTC about getting out of Div Four. We were always a nearly team while scoring a truck load of goals. My favourite game? In 64-5 we beat Brighton 4-2. They were top of the Division and their team included Bobbie Smith the former England centre forward and Mel Hopkins who was a well known Wales defender at a time when the dragons had a half reasonable team. Both ex Spurs. A full house at Prenton 13,000 odd - heaps of atmosphere - a good game and a win! Sinclair, Dyson, McDonnell and Alan A'Court. Bobbie Smith scored one of the Brighton goals. Shows how times change. I used to get the bus from Woodside to the ground and I saw Roy Sinclair on it from time to time going to the game! A skilful midfielder who did not quite have the power to really go places in the game.

 

[bring back the cowshed!]

Agree BBTC about getting out of Div Four. We were always a nearly team while scoring a truck load of goals. My favourite game? In 64-5 we beat Brighton 4-2. They were top of the Division and their team included Bobbie Smith the former England centre forward and Mel Hopkins who was a well known Wales defender at a time when the dragons had a half reasonable team. Both ex Spurs. A full house at Prenton 13,000 odd - heaps of atmosphere - a good game and a win! Sinclair, Dyson, McDonnell and Alan A'Court. Bobbie Smith scored one of the Brighton goals. Shows how times change. I used to get the bus from Woodside to the ground and I saw Roy Sinclair on it from time to time going to the game! A skilful midfielder who did not quite have the power to really go places in the game.

Ah, you're making me drool again. Yes, I was at that match. The return game at the Goldstone Ground was where it started to go wrong. We were a goal up with a few minutes to play. They got an (allegedly offside) equaliser and went on to win. We finished fifth. Had we won that day, we'd have gone up as champions. If wins had been worth three points in those days, we'd still have been champions, but we stayed down for two more seasons. It was heartbreaking to a young lad like me who had seen his side at the top of the division most of the season. Hope history does not repeat itself!

Of course, in those days most of the team were locals - either youngsters from across the water or players nearing the end of their career. Now we have players from many nationalities and races in the side. BTW, can anyone tell me who was the first black or foreign player to play for us?

 

[drwhoman]

CHELSEA

BBTC - my vote goes to Onyeali the Nigerian international - about 1960. I think he was studying at Liverpool University at the time. On the Chelsea game I was browsing through Peter Bishop's photo book about Tranmere Rovers published by Tempus in 1998 (essentially as this correspondence hit a mental nostalgia button!) and what did I come across? A team photo taken just before the Chelsea game! We had, of course, only recently adopted a white kit at that time. I am surprised Chelsea did not ask us to change - they probably had difficulty seeing Rovers against the snow!